"Basics of Basics" MIG welding [Archive] - Chevelle Tech

: "Basics of Basics" MIG welding


MARTINSR
Nov 2nd, 02, 11:43 AM
I forgot if I had ever posted this here so I am in response to another post.
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MIG Welding Basics

Let me start with safety, DO NOT SKIP, YOU NEED TO READ THIS. The UV rays that are produced at the weld can and will cause damage to your eyes you know that. But did you know that it WILL damage to your skin as well? I have gotten “sun burn” from welding. I have only “peeled” from regular sunburn a few times in my life (I have a dark Portuguese complexion) I have peeled from MIG welding more! This was a long time ago, I would never let that happen again. Wear a light long sleeve cotton shirt at the very least. You want jeans and high top boots on too. Wear welding gloves, go down to the local auto parts or hardware store and get yourself some nice SOFT gloves. Some are made so stiff that it is hard to work in them. I got some at ACE hardware that are dang near sensual . Get a good helmet, I have a Cherokee ( http://www.accustrike.com/ ) that is only about $90.00. It is a hands free helmet that you open the shaded lens with your chin! I have had it for about 15 years without a problem. When open it gives you a full 4x5-inch or so CLEAR lens, unlike the “self darkening” helmets that are always shaded. You can flip up the lens and grind anytime you want. I want the full control of when to see through a shade or not. I highly recommend this helmet. Also, another thing that I have only begun using a year or so ago (I hate thinking about how long I didn’t use it) a welding respirator. A 3M NOISH approved are available at ACE hardware for about $18.00. If you are welding with weld-thru or “E” coat primer you are making ZINC FUMES! And can get “zinc fume fever” VERY easily. Even when welding clean metal, you are still making fumes that are hazardous. Be sure the respirator fits under your helmet. The Cherokee helmet for instance doesn’t have room for a cartridge mask so a single throwaway is all that will work. HEAR ME NOW BELIEVE ME LATER, PROTECT YOURSELF. Even if you don’t care about the protection because you are such a bad-a$$, do it because you will produce a better weld. It is hard to lay a nice bead when you have a hot molten ball of steel in your shoe or pants. 

I would like to start with this “disclaimer”. These are tips in welding in the real world by real human beings that are not pro welders. A pro welding under controlled conditions would possibly disagree with some things here. That is fine if you get other input to better your skills, this is for basic understanding of MIG welding in the real world.

MIG welding is actually just a “controlled short”. It is a short just like if you touch your two battery cables together on your car and it sparks. The MIG does the same thing, you just are in control of it. You are melting the metal with heat created by this “short”.


Basic principles of MIG welding are this: You have VOLTAGE, the pressure that pushes electrons through a circuit. Then CURRENT, (same as amperage) the amount of electrons being pushed. And RESISTANCE this restricts electrons from flowing. The gas (Argon, CO2, or a mixture of both 75-25% is most common) is blowing away the impurities in the air around and on the surface of the weld. If there is a breeze you may need to up the pressure from the recommended 25-30 cubic feet per minute or 3-4 PSI.

What the heck does this mean?

The arc that is formed when the wire comes out of the gun and hits the metal is your “CIRCUIT” (or current path), The welder has to have enough voltage to keep the current flowing. You control these variables with the “heat” switch (VOLTAGE) the wire speed knob (CURRENT) and the “stick-out” and or “arc length” (RESISTANCE).

The MIG welder has to be “tuned” just like a spray gun or your carburetor on you car. That perfect balance between too hot a weld (blowing holes) and too cold a weld (not enough penetration) is where you want to be. Fortunately this balance is pretty wide for at least “normal” welding on your car.

“Hot” or “Cold” weld. I will refer to welds in this way to describe them. Extreme “Hot” would be heavy melting, puddling, burning holes. Extreme “Cold” or “Cool” would be not enough melting thus not enough penetration.

To find this balance, get a piece of scrape metal that is the same thickness as the metal you will be welding (or very close to it). Clamp your ground clamp to it and lay a bead on it. Start the bead with the MIG set at the recommended settings on your welder. You don’t have to lay a bead to be proud of here, just weld. If you have someone to help this can be a big help, but if you don’t go it alone, you’ll need to learn to do it someday anyway. While you are laying a bead have your partner turn the wire speed (CURRENT) up and or down till you hear that perfect ZGHZGHZGHZGHZGHZGHZ and you will see in the bead that it is perfect. The weld will be laying out relatively flat with no “undercut” (at the edge of the weld there isn’t a low spot where the weld has burned away the metal and not replaced it with melted wire). If your wire speed it too slow there will be gaps in sound then pops. Watch the weld and see if the weld is “crawling” up the wire, that is a dead give away speed is too slow. If it is too fast, it have faster pops as the wire is burning away and quickly hitting the metal arcing again. These sounds can be very subtle so it may take a while to learn the sound, have patience.

Now if you have to do this alone, just hold the gun one of your hands and have the other on the wire control, it is very awkward at first but you will be able to do it well in no time.

I have to clear up an “old husbands tale” about the sound of the weld. I have heard and read many times that your weld should sound like “bacon frying”. Let me tell you right now, if your welds sound like bacon frying, you are laying some crappy welds! It should sound more like an electric buzzer “ZGHZGHZGHZGHZGHZGHZGZHZGH”. If it sounds like bacon frying “ZGHZZ-POP-ZHZGHZ-POP-CRACKLE-ZHZGZ” You are doing something wrong.

So, what does this technical stuff about voltage and current have to do with learning to weld? Well if you understand WHAT is happening, it is easier to MAKE happen what you want.

If you are welding a little too “hot” and are blowing holes, you could adjust this simply by creating more RESISTANCE by lengthening the “stick-out” or distance that you are holding the tip of the gun from the surface being welded. So as you weld a bead, if you see the weld puddling too much and fear that it may blow through, you can back the tip off the metal a little and create more resistance. If you are welding thin metal you can start with a longer stick-out and produce a “cooler” weld also. Now, this has to be done with caution because if you rise up too much, the gas does not shield the weld leaving the weld porous.

The direction of travel and speed WILL also effect the “heat” of the weld. If you use the “drag” technique with the gun dragging away from the weld, it will be “cooler”. If you are using the “push” technique with the gun pushing into the weld it will produce a “hotter” weld. So, if you were to start on the left side of a seam and with the gun leaning to the right at 45 degrees welding from left to right, this would be “dragging”. If you were to start on the right side of the seam with the gun leaning to the right as before and welding left, to the left side of the panel, that would be “pushing” the weld. I find that when welding sheet metal if there is a burning through problem, changing to the pull technique will do the job most of the time.

Of course speed is obvious, the slower you go the hotter and flatter the weld. The faster you go the taller and cooler the weld. All of these techniques can be used with one and other through out even one seam (though you wouldn’t likely change from push to pull or vice-versa) to control the weld. Ideally you would have the weld set up and cleaned so you wouldn’t have to do this, but realistically you do have to change gun distance speed as you weld.

The first BIG tip I can give is to have a nice pair of angle wire cutters beside you at all times. You will want to cut the wire off at the proper length EVERY time you start a weld. This does two things, first of all it gives you the “stick-out” that you want every time. Second, it will give you a sharp tip to “pierce” the metal or weld-thru primer. Third, that little ball of metal on the end of your wire, it is oxidation! That is right, if you leave it there, you are pushing RUST into your nice new weld! I learned this tip from a certified pro welder (underwater even) and it totally changed the way I weld.

The second BIG tip is to have everything CLEAN and set up TIGHT for the weld. Like with painting, the preparation is KEY. Even the slightest grease, tar, paint, rust, etc. can cause BIG problems. As a rule the smaller lower the voltage your welder, the more critical this is. Clamp the pieces TIGHT, and keep the metal clean at least one inch from the weld with two or three inches preferably.

So lets weld a “lap” weld where a piece of sheet metal is laying over another and you will be welding the top piece to the one laying under it. I find that a pull technique with the gun at a 45 degree angle and pointing right straight at the seam the most effective. But the thing is, the upper sheet will burn MUCH easier than the bottom. The edge of that sheet has much less of a “heat sink” effect than bottom sheet. Sort of like starting to burn that log in your fireplace, if you start on the edge where it is thin it will start burning MUCH easier than if you started right in the middle right? Well, when you are welding this lap weld you want to start the weld on the bottom piece and even concentrate the weld on the bottom.
This may sound funny but if you get a piece of paper and fold it so you have a “lap” seam you can see what I am going to tell you. Hold this seam flat with a few pieces of tape but leave it exposed so you can “weld” it with some white glue. Lay a bead of glue on the bottom paper right next to the edge of the upper paper just as I described above. When you get real close to the upper paper edge you will see the glue sort of “grab” on to the edge. You don’t even have to move the bead all they way over to it, if you are very close and you just barely hit it with the glue, it will “hang on” to it. Continuing the bead down the edge with most of it laying on the bottom sheet, the edge of the bead will “grab” the edge of the paper, without any effort on your part.

Your weld bead will do the same thing. When you are concentrating on the bottom, harder to melt metal just move the bead over to touch the edge of the top metal and it will “grab on” to it. You can run the bead with most of the heat being directed on the bottom and just “grabbing” the top without blowing it away.

This goes for plug welding too. The size of the hole depends of a few factors, usually 5/16” is the norm. But sometimes you could go down to 3/16” or up to 3/8” depending on the thickness of the metal or how important the strength of the weld is. That sounds funny but if you are welding in a “backing” for a butt weld for instance, it is only being plug welded to hold it there till you lay the bead into it while welding the two adjacent pieces together. As before with lap welding you want to direct the weld into the “bottom” of the hole to hit the bottom piece of metal first, then melting it into the surrounding metal just like the lap weld. If you have perfectly prepared plug welds, you should easily be able to fill the hole with weld leaving the top almost flat. If you are ending up with a large hump, you need to raise your voltage, or wire speed to weld “hotter”. Weld a number of tests before going on to your car. Weld as hot as you can without burning through and look under the panel to see your penetration If the weld is coming through the bottom producing a hump under it, the weld is too “hot”. Either speed up, lengthen the arc or stick-out or lower voltage.

Hope this helps you produce better welds.


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1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

sevt_chevelle
Nov 2nd, 02, 5:44 PM
Martin, like you say safty needs be the most important. I spent two days in the hospital getting my lungs pumped because of the fumes. It destroyed my lungs and my breathing capaticy and every day since then I cough up yellow spit about three times a day. You need to protect yourself...PERIOD. You need to remove the zinc coating or you will get zinc oxide poision like me and get headaches every time someone welds and later that night feel like you are hacking up a lung. So wear a mask and have the proper air flow, its not a trick deal...Eric

[This message has been edited by sevt_chevelle (edited 11-02-2002).]

Umass
Nov 3rd, 02, 8:37 PM
Hi I have a small Lincoln mig welder. at about what pressure should I be running the shieling gas at thanks

10secBu
Nov 3rd, 02, 10:36 PM
That's a good basic explanation to work from.

I would like to add one thing that many beginners can have problems with during panel replacement. Often times, your putting a new clean panel on top of pitted/rusted under surface which is very tough to weld if you don't know the correct method.

Let's say you have a new panel on top of an original under panel and you have a series of 5/16" holes to plug weld. if you start your electrode (filler wire) in the center of the hole, you'll be trying to establish an arc on pitted/rusty metal that doesn't conduct terribly well. What you end up with is a vary unstable arc and get some terrible popping noises and an ugly weld. The secret in such a situation is to start your arc on the edge of the new panels hole. Once the arc has started and is stablized (usually very quickly), then move your torch to the center of your hole and start circling to make your plug weld. I find a "hot" welder setting will help with being able to weld on rusty metal or areas where you just can't seem to remove all the paint, etc (this "hot" setting also helps the bead lay down flatter and minimizes grinding a ton of tall bead off due to a too "cold" setting).

Keep in mind with sheetmetal especially, the hotter you have the machine set (like my example above), the quicker you need to move your torch. As Martin mentioned in his post, you then can use torch movement angle and wire stick-out to control the intensity of the arc/puddle.

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Malibu Motorsports (http://www.malibumotorsports.cjb.net)
414 ci bbc, 3500 lbs
10.66 @ 125 1/4 mile
6.74 @ 101 1/8 mile
1.48 60' on 9" tire

MARTINSR
Nov 4th, 02, 9:55 AM
Umass, if your welder has a "flow" meter you want it at 25-30 CFH (cubic feet per hour) If it has a pressure regulator you want it at 3-4 PSI.

10sec, you are right, but the best thing to do is take the time to clean where you are going to weld so you don't have to worry about welding to a rusted surface.

The way I look at it, you are GOING to spend X amount of time welding this panel on including clean up and weld dressing. Being it is going to take you X amount of time, spend most of that time on cleaning the weld area. Then you will spend less time on clean up and weld dressing because your welds will be smoother. You still spend X amount of time but it is spent on cleaning prior to welding instead of after on dressing welds. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

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1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

10secBu
Nov 4th, 02, 10:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MARTINSR:
10sec, you are right, but the best thing to do is take the time to clean where you are going to weld so you don't have to worry about welding to a rusted surface.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ummm...I do take plenty of time to grind http://www.chevelles.com/forum/rolleyes.gif.

The problem is many, many times, the under structure has been compromised and is very thin from the rust. If you grind too much, you'll have paper thin metal.

It all depends on the backing material and how much deterioration has taken place.


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Malibu Motorsports (http://www.malibumotorsports.cjb.net)
414 ci bbc, 3500 lbs
10.66 @ 125 1/4 mile
6.74 @ 101 1/8 mile
1.48 60' on 9" tire

Jimmy P
Nov 4th, 02, 1:33 PM
Has anyone had good results with flux core wire? I tried it and it just plain sucked. .035" wire and a mixed gas worked 27 & 5/8 better than flux core.

MARTINSR
Nov 4th, 02, 10:25 PM
10sec, have you tried means other than grinding to clean the metal? I hardly ever clean metal by grinding. In the ICAR classes they really push corrosion restoring corrosion resistance in collision repair. So because of this I have gotten used to NOT grinding metal. I only grind right where the welds have been drilled off just to flatten it out nice. But on the rest I use a 3" 3M "Roloc" disc on an angle grinder. Late model cars have a zinc coating on most every sheet metal part (zinc=galvanized). You are not supposed to remove this zinc coating. So the Roloc disc is perfect. I have found that the Roloc can even cut the metal or cut welds down, but only if you want to. If you just run it over paint or rust it will clean the metal nice without cutting the zinc off. Now, the Roloc will go into nooks and crannies that a grinding disc can't even dream of. It REALLY works well, give them a try. It is like I said, cleaning is time well spent. We have a Pro spot STRSW (Squeeze type resistance spot welder) at work. There is one guy who REFUSES to clean the metal on both sides of the weld. He thinks he is saving time by only grinding one side. The tool has a setting on it for "coated metals". What it does is holds the "squeeze" and voltage untill it finally gets a good connection to weld. He wiggles the thing back and forth till it breaks through the coating and welds. Each weld takes ten or twenty seconds of this wiggling. It beats the living hell out of the electrode tips and throw sparks all over the place. Then one of the other guys gets the welder for his job and has to reface the electrode tips before he can even use the tool. Then he welds one after another without a problem. You can weld one a second on clean metal. They are clean, smooth welds, ready for paint. The point is, again, taking the time to clean is time very well spent. It makes for better welds, and the finish work is easier. There is always a way to clean it better. If need be spot sand blast with a "Speed blaster" like I posted a while ago. What ever it takes, clean it well so you can weld a nice clean weld with the perfect bzbzbzbzbbbzzb sound and no sparks flying around to start fires.

Jimmy, flux core wire SUCKS and should be limited to use on bridge or something like that out in the wind where gas can't be used. If you are welding with flux core and tried gas with solid wire, you would throw that flux core in the garbage before you completed the first pass.



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1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

bhawk
Nov 5th, 02, 4:01 PM
martinSr, can you describe the "roloc" disc. I think I should purchase one, but I would like to know what I am looking for, more or less. I have a 4.5 inch angle grinder. do companies other than 3M make such discs?

sevt_chevelle
Nov 5th, 02, 7:01 PM
bhawk the ROLOC is a small flexible disc that screws onto a special attachment that goes on a drill. The discs can be bought in three sizes I believe 2,3,4 inch. The discs can also be bought in different grits 36 up to 180 Ive seen. The attachment costs around 10 bucks or less. Other companies out there make the Rolocdisc style disc but I will tell you that they dont last as long as the 3M brand, they tear apart very easily.

You need to get rid of that angle grinder it puts out too much heat, the ROLEC doesnt produce as much as the angle grinder will. HEat equals warpage. Any paint supply house or parts store should have these in stock as they are very common, every body shop I know of uses them...Eric

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1970 chevelle
1970 chevelle SS455 not a typo its a buick baby
1949 and 1972 chevy trucks
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/sevt_chevelles

gearheads78
Nov 6th, 02, 12:16 AM
I have gotten to be pretty good at welding as long as it is horizontal or verticle welds. My ongoing problem is if I ever have to weld upside down. My welds never come out like I want them to when I weld from the bottom. Other than a body rotating device any tips for this?

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Richard "Car addict without a cure"
New sales person at Reliable Chevrolet in Richardson.

-67 Chevelle Concours wagon (http://www.deadzoom.com/member/gearheads78/67wagon.jpg)will have LT1 or LS1 power /12bolt
-78 Malibu (http://www.deadzoom.com/member/gearheads78/78bu.jpg) w/mild 383

MARTINSR
Nov 6th, 02, 1:49 AM
Bhawk, the 3M Roloc discs were originally designed for removing gasket material off engine parts. So if you don't have a body shop supply store near by you can get them at any quality auto parts store. The part numbers are 07485 for the coarse 3" and 07486 for a med 3". I use the med. The mandrel is #05540. The mandrel has a 1/4" shank and is typically used in an angle die grinder. If you need to by the die grinder buy a GOOD one. I recently bought a cheapie (yeah I know, I went and broke my own rule) and it is JUNK. It hardly has any torque at all.


These things are so cool after you start using them you get hooked. The will clean up a weld for instance with a nice softening to the edges all the while cleaning the HECK out of it down in the nooks and crannies. I first used them at my brothers mechanical shop when we were restoring his 1946 Harley. I was going to have the frame powder coated and was just cleaning it up. I didn't want to use a grinder so I tried the Roloc coarse. I was able to remove the "runs" of brass from the joints in the frame with no damage what so ever to the metal! It was like buffing off some glue or something, really neat.

Richard, try turning the heat up and or turning the wire speed down. Of course you will want to increase your weld speed and I use a "push" method so I can weld even faster. Hot and fast is the trick.

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1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

bhawk
Nov 6th, 02, 10:43 PM
I just bought the roloc setup today and came back from my garage a few minutes ago. Boy do they work nice on my angle air die grinder. I only bought 3 different grits to experiment, but what a nice job and easy to use. Great tip, thanks guys.

boomhauer
Nov 7th, 02, 7:38 AM
Roloc spelled backwards is Color.You can tell the different disk grits by the color of them.Thats what the name Roloc is all about.Just some useless trivia passed on to me by an ex-3M employee. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

Frank66
Nov 11th, 02, 10:19 AM
Simple question.. The full length floor boards from ground up has a black coating on it, is that Zinc? do i have to sand it down before i weld to avoid this toxic Zn oxide?
Frank

MARTINSR
Nov 11th, 02, 8:38 PM
boomhauer, I love trivia and have already used that one a number of times, thanks. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

Frank, call Ground up and ask it is an "E" coat primer. If you can rub it with a lacquer thinner rag without it coming off it is most likely "E" coat. At that point, give it a try and see if you can weld through it. Remember to cut the wire nice with a point so it will pierce through it.

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1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

Frank66
Nov 12th, 02, 12:17 PM
Martinsr, I have never welded before, i havent started paracticing yet either, so there should not be sparks flying around? If so are the setting wrong? my fear is welding inside the car with sparks flying everywhere, i guess im picturing torch welding.
frank