Hi All,
I'm about to rebuild the front suspension on my 69 Chevelle and want to use Moog parts suggested by this forum. I was in my local Car Quest store and inquired about Moog bushings. The counter guy said Car Quest bushings are made by Moog. Can anyone verify this?

Thanks for all the great information!!

I don't know if the guy is telling you the truth or not.... but if it doesn't come in a moog box I wouldn't buy it .. just my 2c

NAPA makes better parts than Moog IMHO.

Napa is Moog and I'm sure Carquests are re-boxed Moog as well.

But Napa's boxes are prettier, so BUY NAPA!!!!!!!!!!! :D:D:D:D

NAPA makes better parts than Moog IMHO.

I keep hearing that here but as far as I know, NAPA doesn't "make" anything. They are an association of auto parts retailers. It's kind of a union so they can collectively bargain for better prices from the wholesaler. Moog and TRW are the 2 big dogs and probably a few smaller companies make parts too. No matter where you go, I'd say 7 out of 10 times, you are getting a Moog or TRW part. Granted, they have "first" lines and "second" lines to cater to different price points but that's about it.

Carquest does use Moog as one of there suppliers.If the part is a reboxed moog part it will have a small moog symbol somewhere on the box.Its probably about 1/4 or 3/8th's inch.

Thanks Guys,
How about our sponsor "Ground Up", do they use Moog or TRW?
I figure If I'm going to go through all the work of a front and rear suspension rebuild, I want to use good bushings.

Thanks again!!

Napa is Moog and I'm sure Carquests are re-boxed Moog as well.

But Napa's boxes are prettier, so BUY NAPA!!!!!!!!!!! :D:D:D:D
Where do you people get your delusional information? Napa's premium line has nothing to do with Moog. In fact the Napa premium line is not like any other suspension part anywhere other than Howe's precision ball joints. They are the best money can buy, no other suspension part manufacturer offers a one-piece socket with a precision forged and machined pivot ball, all the others are cast sockets and it's obvious.

I saw that NAPA ball joint and it is NICE. Of course I see this after I install the McQuay/Norris jobs. But I will say this...I just ordered the complete front end rebuild kit from NPD. Also got a centerlink. I noticed that the centerlink and idler arm are both TRW parts. And NAPA's higher priced items were the same part #. Also got all new springs...made by Elgin.

I like the convienence of the entire kit, but I think you need to get the best balljoints you can, at least from a safety standpoint. I only drive my car maybe 1000 miles a year, so what I put in there will probably outlast me...

Where do you people get your delusional information? Napa's premium line has nothing to do with Moog. In fact the Napa premium line is not like any other suspension part anywhere other than Howe's precision ball joints. They are the best money can buy, no other suspension part manufacturer offers a one-piece socket with a precision forged and machined pivot ball, all the others are cast sockets and it's obvious.

From NAPA's website:
One of the unique strengths of the NAPA system is the combination of national buying power, training resources, and distribution muscle with local ownership and commitment. Most NAPA AUTO PARTS stores and all NAPA AutoCare repair facilities are local, independently owned and operated businesses that have deep roots in their communities. NAPA people combine the best attributes of "Fortune 500" professionalism with the hometown values of honesty, hard work, familiarity with local needs, pride of place, and pride of ownership.
NAPA people refer to this unique combination of "Main Street" people, tradition, and values with "Wall Street" training, resources, and buying power as "the NAPA Spirit." It is a primary reason that NAPA has grown from a tiny association of "can-do" industry pioneers to become the industry leader. The NAPA Spirit is something that no national chain or stand-alone local store can duplicate.

The NAPA Spirit is one reason why more people choose NAPA than any other parts supplier.

Where do you see MANUFACTURING in there? SOMEONE makes those parts, but it ain't NAPA. And they may be very high quality parts, per NAPA's specifications, but that's about as far as I'm willing to go.

While we are on the subject of what auto parts store sells what brand, who knows who NAPA uses for brake parts?? I got 2 Calipers for my 69 Charger and one had stripped threads where the bolt holds the hose on. Also, I've had problems with their brake hoses before, so I sent those back along with both calipers I had.

I assume they are reman? That's not totally uncommon, I got a Cardone one that had the bleeder screw RUSTED into it. It's hard to say where NAPA get their parts, they go to the lowest bidder basically.

Yeah, they were reman, I thought Bendix had new ones, apprently they don't and I read wrong. I just don't like generic reman stuff. Those calipers nor the box had any kind of ID as to who remaned them, that's the other reason I sent them back. Also the fact that I can order the Bendix ones from Advance for $22 and no core charger. NAPA charged $23 +$11 core charge.

I'm just making it crystal clear that you cannot buy a Moog or TRW, or any other part I’ve seen and get the same quality as the Napa premium line. I have no idea who makes it but it for sure it isn't a re-boxed part, I buy too many suspension parts, and I’d know if they were.

So Dennis are you saying to use all premium NAPA suspension components or just the ball joints? Pete

I like all the hard parts, obviously at work I use the bushings as well but for my personal cars and side job stuff I use Teflon.

Where do you people get your delusional information? Napa's premium line has nothing to do with Moog. In fact the Napa premium line is not like any other suspension part anywhere other than Howe's precision ball joints. They are the best money can buy, no other suspension part manufacturer offers a one-piece socket with a precision forged and machined pivot ball, all the others are cast sockets and it's obvious.

Well.......I work for Napa, and while I'm not the absolute knowledge of what our parts are, every one of my superiors tell me they're Moog, our Technichal Help line has Moog's # on it, and even have an adverstising mat showing off the difference in quality for Moog's ball joints. So, it could very well be that your areas Napa's carry a different premuim chassis part manufacturer.....everything here sure seems to point to Moog. Plus most of what we carry is Federal Mogul stuff, so it would make sense that we would stick with the same parent company.

While we are on the subject of what auto parts store sells what brand, who knows who NAPA uses for brake parts?? I got 2 Calipers for my 69 Charger and one had stripped threads where the bolt holds the hose on. Also, I've had problems with their brake hoses before, so I sent those back along with both calipers I had.

As far as I know, Napa doesn't carry any new calipers and the main re-manufacturer is United, with A1 Cardone I believe being a secondary(all we have here is United). But, they're alright for you're basic car, nothing special. Brake parts are United(USA) and Dorman(3/4 global, 1/4 USA).


More not-so-interesting facts about your local Napa.:)

OK, I called Napa technical toady. All premium line suspension parts are Dana Corp., which doesn't make parts for any of the other large competitors. Better let your superiors know they are fairly uninformed for being in a supervisory position.

Ok, consider me wrong then.......

OK, I called Napa technical toady. .

I would love to be a NAPA technical toady. :D

Great info here, did not know that about NAPA suspension pieces (although its the only parts store I shop at for everything else)

If you go to most chain auto parts store's website, you usually see a variety of brands and prices of any one item. You may have to order some that aren't stocked but usually available in a couple days. For instance, at Advance Auto Parts (www.advanceautoparts.com (http://www.advanceautoparts.com)) you can get Moog, TRW, and at least one other brand of susp parts. I used TRW susp parts on my stock Malibu and they were about 25-35% less than Moog. Seemed to be high quality parts.

OK, I called Napa technical toady. All premium line suspension parts are Dana Corp., which doesn't make parts for any of the other large competitors.Glad to know I'm not crazy :D When I was planning to do the tall-spindle swap, I had my buddy who works at NAPA price everything out for me... I asked for MOOG per the advice from people here, and he told me NAPA brand was better... I didn't believe him, so we took one from the shelf, and went to AutoZone to compare (with him in his NAPA uniform :D ) ...I was impressed :thumbsup:

Boy, I'm glad I posted the question, lot of good information here. I was on NAPA's web site for prices today and I'm at about $300 for 4-ball joints, upper & lower front control are bushings, sway bar link kit, and outer tie rod ends. (all PREMIUM parts)

Ground Up has this suspension kit for $169. How does Ground Up compare in quality? Thanks in advance!

I have a set of McQuay and Norris ball joints and tie rods that are not installed yet. Are McQuay and Norris parts decent? Or would it be better to go with the premium NAPA parts? In considering this, I will be driving about 6,000 miles a year.
Thanks

I just installed all Mcquay/Norris parts (all from NPD), and I was happy to see that the tie rods were beefier looking than what was on there. Those NAPA ball joints do look good though!

Since when did Moog parts become sub standard? They wrote the book. College text books used info supplied by Moog. Federal Mogul now owns Moog. The new stock Moog springs come in a Federal Mogul box. Carquest is reboxed Moog. I bought a set of springs there and they reboxed the wrong springs LOL. Detroit Eaton springs say they are custom wound but if you use the dimensions you can come up with a Moog part number. Northern Auto parts has very good prices on Moog suspension parts.

Moog parts are not bad at all; it's just the NAPA "Premium" line parts are better when it comes to construction quality. It's quite apparent if you hold examples of identical part numbers from both brands in your hand, moreso if you see a cutaway or do a slice-and-dice yourself.

I have some experience: I wore out 2 Moog centerlinks in my car in less than 15,000 miles and also a Moog idler arm in that same period. (I drive pretty hard and have zero tolerance for sloppy steering, so as soon as I feel even a little bit of lash I junk the offending parts.) Last go around I tried a NAPA premium centerlink and idler arm and both are still hanging in there after almost 10K miles, still feels good as new. My tie rods are a mishmash and have been on the car about 20K miles; the inners are NAPA Premiums and the outers are Moog. The Moogs are starting to get a bit sloppy, while the NAPA's are still slop-free. BTW, I use Redline synthetic grease in all my chassis bits and grease and inspect frequently because of my driving habits.

I haven't worn out a Moog balljoint yet (currently have then in my UCA/LCA's.) If I had to change them right now with OEM-style stuff I'd use NAPA Premium, but I'll very likely be using Howe Modulars when I re-do the suspension because they're the only game in town for what I want to do.

Troy

Did you ever have Moog parts fail on you? What makes the NAPA parts better? Is it something you can prove without a doubt or is it just an observation?

What is the meaning of "better"? What is the meaning of life? What came first the chicken or the egg?

You'd have to tell me the price difference and expected fatigue life of these parts and I'd tell you which is better. If the Moog has a probability of failure of 0.00002 in 300,000 miles of normal driving and the NAPA has a probability of failure of 0.00001 and costs 1.5 times, I'd have to say the NAPA loses.

My $0.02

It’s not that Moog parts are bad, just that Napa premium parts are much better. Can this be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt? Yes, I believe I already posted the advantages earlier; machined one-piece ball joint studs vs. cast pieces, hardened lined semi-elliptical housings vs. spring loaded-rough cast housings. Will Moog parts fail prematurely? Sometimes, in the case of the Dodge Durango/Dakota, the Napa piece is the only ball joint proven to not fail prematurely (see any Dodge forum or ask any Dodge dealer about ball joint issues on 1999-2004 AN/DN trucks).

Better in my eyes is strickly quality of the product. Cost is my last standard, NOT my first like many.

I'm using Howe Percision Ball joints in the uppers and Moog in the lowers.

Both nice stuff, however nothing compaires to the Howe Ball joints.

Eventually i may replace my lowers with the Howe Percision along with the Tie Rods.

Take a brand new greased ball joint and work is in its motion by hand. Very tough to do.

The Howe Precision require very little effort to swivel through their travel.

The result is a suspension where the Shocks do the dampening. Afterall thats they're job, not the job of the bushings and Ball joints, though they end up doing a good portion of it when using Rubber Bushings (or poly) and stiff ball joints.

Back up the bus. The original queston was about Moog ball joints. Not about what works best on a Dodge Dakota. This is a Chevelle forum. Now are the Howe ball joints reboxed NAPA ball joint or reboxed Dana ball joints? Did you ever have Moog parts fail on a Chevelle or are you just trying to sell something?

I don't even work for a parts retailer; this is my own observation from years of experience. The Dodge reference was for your info since you wanted specific details of failure. Failure is failure regardless of the application. Moog builds an OE equivalent part, if you are OK with mediocrity then use them.

Howe ball joints are made by Howe, sold in Howe boxes and not available for resale under any other name.

Napa ball joints are made by Dana corp. and to the best of my knowledge no sold under any other labels.

Moog parts are OK, there are better available and that is what this thread is about.

I have never had a Moog part fail on any A body that I have owned. That's a fact. Mediocre I don't think so...I have a set of Moog upper ball joints sitting in a box right in front of me, part number K5108. Let me open the box and describe what I see. Rough machined? not in the least bit. I can tell you the part has been heat treated by the color.

I have never had a Moog part fail on any A body that I have owned. That's a fact. Mediocre I don't think so...I have a set of Moog upper ball joints sitting in a box right in front of me, part number K5108. Let me open the box and describe what I see. Rough machined? not in the least bit. I can tell you the part has been heat treated by the color.
So since the 3 or 4 cars with Moog parts you have owned have never had a failure that you know of, they must be perfect.

They are not heat treated as I routinely machine them on a Brdigeport....soemthing you cannot do to heat treated castings.

My bad, I didn't realize I was dealing with the devils advocate....that is what are doing here since you have zero tech to back up any of your claims but plenty to say about the matter.

Ok... Based on this discussion I've concluded the following...

MOOG - meets OE specs, overall good part with acceptable life expectancy - about $200 for front end kit.

NAPA Premium - meets or exceeds OE specs, great overall part with extended life expectancy - about $300 for front end kit.

Ground Up - I don't have any information about the quality - about $169 for front end kit.

If money is not an object then go with NAPA premium. Otherwise, it may depend on how you drive the car. I expect to put about 3000 miles a year on the car (insurance requirement) and would consider MOOG a cost effective choice.

I hate when I don't take my own advice, I'm going with NAPA premium because nothing is too good for my baby...

Denny im with you i ve use many moog parts over the last 35 years have seen many not go the distance of OEM. i have install many ball joints and have seen the cars for many years after.Moog are ok for the normal car, not one diven hard. if you want to keep everything tight go with Napa or Howe
Curt

i think theres a lot of bad in info in all this, federal-mogul owns trw and moog.
napa dont make squat. http://www.federal-mogul.com/cda/content/front/0,2194,2336_2812_3886,00.html go buy a trw ball joint and it will have a moog dust boot on it.

i think theres a lot of bad in info in all this, federal-mogul owns trw and moog.OK, no one questioned who the parent company of either was
napa dont make squat. You are correct, Dana Corp makes their suspension parts. Again , no debate here go buy a trw ball joint and it will have a moog dust boot on it.I don't care for TRW or Moog so it doesn't affect me any.
Thanks clearing that up though

so your saying dana corp is the only one napa has used for there ''premium parts''

Yup, for the last few years anyways.

I work at the car quest distrubution center in lexington Ky and they are MOOG parts in a car quest box, i bought every thing from there except the drag link and idler arm, it is good stuff

http://www.dodgedakotas.com/boards/v8/2401.html and http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=439739