Just wanting opinions on dealer owned body shops like those owned by Ford, BMW, etc car dealerships.
Looking for different opinions about dealer owned shops. Would you prefer independent or dealer?
Any OE line that would be wise to stray from, because of workability or lack of OE backing?
Thanks as always...Eric graemlins/beers.gif

can't speak for ALL the dealer shops,, but the local big Ford and Chevy Dealer send there Fussy customers to my Buddies Shop. Mater of fact just shot and microfined with 3M's new perfect It 3000 system, A Hood, Trunk and roof on a 2004 Black Lincoln sedan. It had been painted two times in there ultra hi-tech booth and it looked like CRAP. Now the Hood Trunk And roof look like a 1,000,000 bucks comparied to the OEM sides, But onmly a trained eye pulling light across it and see the obvious .
Have seen alot of sent back repair over spray in james. tape/foam lines on edges and dull overspray in lousy pre prep panels and jams.
The avarage Joe looks at the botched factory defects or lot/shipping damage and are glad it's fixed and it's one color and hopefully shinny.
But the truth of the matter corn rows, dry and wet strips, fish eyes and pops are the norm. and the only sanding and buffing are in areas of nibbing ( dirt/Bug) and Run repairs..

Eric,
I dont think it makes a bit of difference. I know of two great dealership body shops, and I know of some that I would not have painting my lawn mower. But the same goes for independents. I think the reputation of the shop is what matters, not the name on the building.

Over the years I have worked for both private and dealer owned shops, the dealerships had a better benefit package. I also do repair inspections now at all different shops and like BillK already mentioned the quality of the work varies from shop to shop reguardless of who it is owned by. Independant shops do tend to take in a better variety of work than dealerships. Warranty work at a dealership can be frustrating soemmtimes because the auto manufacturer's labor times seem to run 25% less than collision repair times. You will see more water leak repairs, wind leak, rattles, and general manufacturer defect repairs at a dealership bodyshop, no big deal. I was looking at my social securities benifits statement just the other day and interestingly enough it shows I made the most money in the years of 93&94 working for a Ford dealership bodyshop on commission, the place had excellent management untill the place cut costs and let the body shop manager go. The Ford bodyshop was the largest bshop North of Milwaukee with 21 employees at the time. I left shortly after the mangment change took place. The shop fell on it's face after that and employees left untill there were only only 3 left in 1999, then the dealership changed hands and merged. From 21 employees with enough income from the shop to support the entire dealership when car sales were low down to a struggling 3 technicians all because of management decisions, fricken consultants! I'm ramblin, sorry :D

I agree with badbob and Bill. For the most part, the individual shop manager determines whether the shop is a good place to work, be profitable AND do good quality work regardless of whether it's dealer owned or independent. I've seen instances where both dealer and independents own multiple shops in the same city. Some were good and some were not. It all depended on the manager of the store.

badbob makes a good point about the benefits package. Benefits on average will be better at dealerships. However, the larger independents, especially the conglomerates/consolidators, offer some respectable benefits too.

Hey Vettefella, I've put that vinyl top installation instructions to use a few times now with great success. Thanks, I'm no longer at the mercy of the interior shop. Bob

I do agree that the manager/quality makes the shop, not the name in lights.
Having all my experience with independents and now where am at now its all dealership owned, the game is different. Seems to be more bs involved.

I enjoy reading about peoples own takes on the same situation, so thats why I posted the topic. Wanted to see if a common theme appeared and hear the different opinions.
Anyone else?

Guys thanks for your time its much appreciated...Eric

I've worked at both.Now at an independent.Dealerships usually have good benifit packages. You see a lot of the same vehicles so you can get real quick at doing things, so if your on comission you can make good money. For example if you work at a Ford dealer,you'll work on Fords,At an independent,you can get a BMW, a Volvo and a Toyota.If your not familar with those,it will take you longer to get the job done. When i worked at a Chevy dealer, all i worked on were Cavaliers,trucks, Malibus, Alero's ect. Today i love it when i get one of those to work on! Dealerships will keep you busy,they are generally busy when other shops are slow,but the pay may not be as good,although they compensate that with training(take ALL they will give you) and benefits.I found a dealership is a good stepping stone in your career. I've worked at a Chevy-olds-buick-pontiac dealer and a Chrysler Plymouth dealer.It looks good on your resume(you have a resume right?) especially with some 'factory training' courses. Most independent shop owners seem impressed when they see some dealership experience under your belt. Just dont let them get you to cheap. That seems to be the downside, they dont want to pay.

It's usually easier to find a job when you're currently employed, I've never burn't bridges, allways made my moves when the pay was topped out and prospects at another shop looked good. It was always a nice feeling when the shop you left lost you to a better situation rather than let you go. I talk with most of my previous employers on a regular basis working for State Farm and they all offer me a job to this day. Nice to know I can always roll my toolboxes back in if the Farm isn't attractive anymore. Working nights and weekends in my own shop is definately taking a toll on me and my family, I wish I would have built up a good full time collision business years ago. sevt_chevelle, have you considered starting your own shop? I've got a family to support and bills up to my eyebrows to pay and can't afford to take the chance now. Maybe you're in a better situation. Another factor on how successful your life will be in the shop is the crew you will be working with, especially if you're good. Jealousy can make life tough. I had one guy I worked with try and run me out of the shop the first year I was there, he was the top dog for 11 years before I walked in and didn't like turning less hours per week than me. All I could do was hold my ground, do good work, and help everyone as much as I could. It all worked out in the end but life was miserable for that first year. Now we are friends, hell we did a flame job on a 68 goat together about a month ago, 16 hours for the layout and spray, lots of laughs and a few beers were downed. Hope you find a good place to work. Boy can I ramble :D

Bob, you speak a wise word. Some people just don't get the burning bridge thing. What a difference that makes in life. I got a call from a shop that I worked at a while ago, NOW he is ready to pay me anything I want. He literally laughed at me when I told him how much I was offered where I now work. He told me there was no way anyone would be paid that. Now, I am not bragging it really isn't that big of a deal and many guys get it around here. But the guy had his head up his butt and didn't know. He told me these very words the last day I worked for him. The day before I asked him if I could come in an hour later because of some personal business (nothing to do with the new job) and he said, NO. I came in on that last day just as usual. At lunch he told me, "Brian there are a lot of people who burn bridges, you are not one of them. If you ever want a job, one will be waiting here". smile.gif That felt damn good I'll tell you.

Eric on the subject of your thread, I have never worked in a dealer shop. I visited a lot of them when I was a rep so I have some idea of them. Seems like everyone is right, they are like any other shop, some good some bad. The one thing I have to say is you better enjoy working on the brand of car that dealership sells!

I am not kidding you, a beautiful new state of the art shop was built about one mile from me at the Chevy dealer. I thought about it for about thrirty seconds until I realized I would have to work on GM cars all day. :eek: Forget it, I love the old ones but eighties and ninties GM cars are the worse!

That last shop I worked at we had a deal going with the Saturn dealer. About 90% of our work was Saturn, it is amazing how the word got around. I love working on them (yeah I know they are GM, but not really, they are a zillion miles away).

I happen to work for a Ford Dealer that has a body shop, It is small shop 6 bays 2 prep stations and 1 spray both. Most of our the work is rust free collision repairs. My body men do fantasic work, it is amazing what they can do. I am turning them loose on my 67 Chevelle project, It seemed to get them excided to be a part of a restoration project something new I guess,they even talked me into do a complete frame up restore. But to answer your question I think it is the person or persons performing the work if they take pride in there work, you should be fine of course good equipment doesnt hurt either. If I didnt have faith in my crew.. believe me they wouldnt have my baby. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

DAH Sorry Mis understood your question graemlins/clonk.gif

It looks good on your resume(you have a resume right?) Oh Yeah. Even have it posted on the net on
www.autobodyjobs.com (http://www.autobodyjobs.com) Listed for about a 1-2 months now and to much surpise have gotten roughly 15-20 responses. But all in places I have no desire to live in, mostly from the Northeast states like Maine and Conn.

Bob the thought of my own place has crossed my mind, but the town I live in is about 4500 people with a county number of 33000. Its not big enough to support a new shop and I really dont think money can be made in the resto biz(not good money anyway). I like you also have bills up to the brows and starting a shop would be suicide. My lung disease is killing me in more then one way smile.gif Plus I hate it here in Iowa, cant stand the winter season and realize their is no future in Iowa as well, so thats why I finally moved down to Kansas City. Just more opportunties and just a better life in general

I dont burn bridges cause you never know what might happen later. The last shop before this one I keep in contact with. Still talk with some of the guys I worked with and the owner, been mentioned several times that am welcome back anytime, which is a darn good feeling.

Unfortunately I cant say it about this place. I and one other guy left a sinking ship and because of that the owner and his son have grown a chip.
When I told them I was leaving, July 2nd would be my last day I got nothing but attitude, I could tell they were pi$$ed. Spent my last 2 weeks like any other week and left on good terms I thought

Because I left and now their shop is crumbling around them, they have taken it upon themselves to cover my name with dirt. I recently found out that 3 shops I interviewed with called asking about me and basically said "I was a sack of sh!t" They told the PPG rep(who is a good friend of mine) "We hold the power to help me get a job and also the power to see that I never work again. graemlins/sad.gif

So its been pretty enjoyable getting screwed by your former employeer simply because they are upset that you left. :rolleyes: :mad:
I just feel like Ive been invited to a gun battle to the death and all I could find is a friggin paper clip smile.gif

Its BS. I spent the last 6 years working there, enjoyed it. Spent ALOT of time away from the shop with the owner and his son fishing, hunting etc, its too bad it came to the point of where its at now.

I thought about it for about thrirty seconds until I realized I would have to work on GM cars all day. Forget it, I love the old ones but eighties and ninties GM cars are the worse!
I hear ya!! I refuse to send a resume to a GM dealer, I have standards!

Bob, you aint the only one that can ramble smile.gif
I could go on but Ill spare you guys from boredom...Eric

I had the same issue with former employers trying to trash me when i left. this was about six years ago, i went for a job,the guy was really cool,talked for an hour.seemed like i had the job. Gave my application with my current shop at the time listed.Only other shops i had listed was a former employer who was a good friend and always gave me glowing references. Well when i called back, the guy wouldn't even get on the phone with me. I called again later and he hung up on me! I know he called my boss at the time,he didnt want me to leave so i can only imagine what he told the guy. :eek If they think "We hold the power to help me get a job and also the power to see that you never work again" Thats BS. Easy way around that. Don't list them on your resume. I will never list anyone who may not give me the reference i want. Hell a few years ago when i moved to a new area and had no good references because i had worked in crappy shops for drunks/drug addicts. I talked to the guy who gave me my first body job in 1989 and who i had worked 4 years for. We sat down and made up a resume saying i worked for him from 1989 to present. Listed him as my employer and reference. Cut all the former employer scumbags out of the loop. I applied at a Chevy dealer.The manager called my former employer that night. He gave me a glowing report,how he was sorry to see me go ect. I got the job, and have been careful who i worked for ever since. Now i have a long list of legit references and have no problems finding a job if i want to change. It may not have been honest but life is not always fair and sometimes you have to do what you have to do to make it in the working wolrd.

BTW what do you guys mean about GM's? They are so simple! The new GM trucks HAVE to be the easiest vehicle out there to work on. I mean one screw and the grill pops out. Pull two pins and the headlight comes out. Take out two bolts, unplug the wiring harness from the post and LIFT the door right off! They pay about 13hrs to change the bedside. We have it down to four hours. I'll work on em all day long.

70, you are right, on the latest GM cars and trucks they are a whole different ball game than the last versions back in the nighties! Now, with lift off doors and those beautiful hood hinges on some new GM cars with vertial adjustment, there are some really great stuff on the newest GM cars. But a few years ago, I am sorry, they sucked.


The bed sides...LOL. We have had some races on those in the shop. I have won with five hours including R&I the bed and rear bumper, totally done, everthing but paint. I love those things.

But in comparison, still a Toyota car or truck is MUCH easier. GM has improved a lot but only over how bad they were, not that much in comparison to other cars. Now, a lot of it is what you get use to. I understand that. I may find something very easy while some other guy seldom works on it and it would be a bear. Someone doing GM cars all day would make me look stupid probably because I just don't do that many.

Agree on the Toyotas. Just did a bedside on a Tundra. Paid 13.5,had it to the paintshop in about 6. :cool: I still think whoever invented the weld on door hinges should be shot. graemlins/clonk.gif

GM invented weld on hinges. So they could market
small and BIG door alingement bars

I have worked at GM & Ford dealerships as well as the independants. The shop manager & the rest of the staff have a lot to do with how good it is. Current GM is not bad to work on if you have tool J-167**** ;) I've had both good & bad experiences on either side, but the benefit's do offer a slant as far as working for someone. (I have 3 little ones, 4 yrs, 2 yrs & 5 mo's) Lately, several GM dealership body shops have converted over to CarStar franchises in my area, so I don't know what's up with that... is it a new trend ?

As far as quality of work... There are good & bad in everything. If the people working in a place are happy, have little to no complaints & like what they do and where they are, you'll get excellent results. There is a saying that goes something like this: (I may not have it right)

Poor workmanship means the worker doesn't care,
Good workmanship means the job is done well,
Good craftmanship means the job is done right with pride & detail. We all want good craftmanship, often settle for good workmanship.

Just some thoughts....

Eric, if you're looking for some work, I know a guy just a few blocks from you that needs some help patching some rust and getting his 70 SS clone convertible body back on the frame.
His initials are "Dean Call" smile.gif

I bet Aristocrat over on I-35 would be a good place to work for someone that is interested in doing quality work.
They do all the high dollar cars around here.

{edit}
Almost forgot, I would like to invite you to our clubs annual picnic/Chevelle - El Camino Exhibit at Shawnee Mission Park - shelter # 8 on August 29th.
Plenty of good free food and Chevelle talk.

The new Gm stuff is much better. Like Brian said someone working on them all day would make us look stupid. I did mostly all Chrysler products roughly around 75-80% of all cars entering the shop was a Mopar. Chyrsler dealerships just sold the crap out of those in my area.

Ive noticed in KC that Hendrick motorsports is buying up dealerships, every thing from Honda to Chevy.

Dean, Ill give you a call sometime.