Help with this bad combination [Archive] - Chevelle Tech

: Help with this bad combination


HPseeker
Jan 18th, 06, 7:52 PM
My friend just bought a 86 Cuttlas and the motor do not got the power he want but he got the car for $1800 ,in good condition.

Here is the combo :
350 @.040 over
DART IRON 215cc (no more than 4 months old ,with receipt)
Victor JR intake
Holley 750 dp
Crane solid 244/252 @.050 ,.518/.536 lift 110/102
2500 converter
3.73 rear
28" tire
9.7:1

I think the original owner did not like the combo after he invested alot of money and dicided to sell car very cheap .

What easy mods "like cam change" can be done to bring this SB to live ?

Bob West
Jan 18th, 06, 7:58 PM
more compression, like 2 points ought to make it work.

kjett
Jan 18th, 06, 8:21 PM
I'm not a SBC guy, but if the compression truly is 9.7:1 I would think a smaller cam (something in the 230 range @ .050 on a tighter LSA) would do wonders for that combo given the converter/gearing. That intake is probably wrong for that engine, as well as the carburetor is probably too big.

Hopefully some of the other will offer you some other options. It would be a shame to have to change out the pistons to add more compression on an engine with a fresh rebuild.

my $0.02

BillsCamino
Jan 18th, 06, 8:30 PM
Too much head...too much cam...single plane intake...too little CR!
Other than than...looks good. ;)
Gotta be a slug. :(
Like Kenny mentioned...230 @ .050 cam (Voodoo 60103), around a 180-185 cc head, Holley 300-36 or RPM intake will do WONDERS with the CR right where it's at!

greg_moreira
Jan 18th, 06, 8:45 PM
In my opinion, the motor combo aint that far off. The big thing is....the car is fairly heavy, and parts like large heads, large cams and a large intake will take torque away of course. This makes it hard for big cars to get off the line. This is not necessarily a bad thing....just the nature of the beast. What I mean is, what it loses down low, it will gain up high(hopefully). So with the proper gearing...although it will never be a low speed torquey engine...it will rev strong and make good horsepower and that combo still has potential to be fast. Of course the compression is low.......thats the only thing thats really wrong with the combo...otherwise its fairly well matched really for a high rpm "racey" 350. If it had at least another point of compression, this would help a little.

Anyways....the big thing I think is the gearing and converter. Your sacrificing lots of low speed power with that combo....and the compression dont help. But it should be capable of lots of high end power(like 400 plus horsepower with a power range of roughly 4000-7000rpm). With more gear and converter, it would help a lot in making up for the loss in low end. He might not want to go that route.... but some 4.11 gears, a 3500+ converter and a good tuneup would really wake things up even with the compression staying as is. If its too rad for his tastes...than he really needs to downsize everything....but dont call it a bad combo just yet, cause if the drivetrain is done right for that motor, and the motor is used like its built to be(a high rpm small block)....it could work out well.

And finally....if its too rad....keep the comp where it is, use 200cc heads at most, dual plane intake(like a performer rpm), 750 carb, and stab in a smaller camshaft(a hydro somewhere around 230 degrees or another solid around 236-238 at .050 on a 110 or 112LSA). This would tame it up a lot and it would run better with the current drivetrain as well.

Darracq
Jan 18th, 06, 8:52 PM
4500 stall and some 4.56s would wake it up.

bowtie455
Jan 18th, 06, 9:50 PM
i agree,more gear,more stall.

HPseeker
Jan 19th, 06, 5:20 AM
Alot of good inf guys . He got a XS274S , 236/242 @.050 ,501/510 lift ,if we put this cam it would help ?

RB69SS396Conv
Jan 19th, 06, 7:51 AM
Yes that should help.

It basically has too much cam (duration) for its CR, as it is.

If the block hasn't been zero-decked, his CR is probably lower - maybe ALOT lower - than what he thinks it is. For example, if those are the 72cc chambers (could be either that or 64), with a stock 9.025" deck, let's say Speed-Pro/TRW pistons (which are an additional .020" in the hole below stock), a typical head gasket like a 1004 (.039"), and flat-tops with 4 valve reliefs (about 6cc "dish"), his "real" CR is about 8.65:1. Whereas, if he had his block decked to 9.000", pistons with stock 1.65" compression height and the same 6cc of valve reliefs, a .028" GM head gasket, and the same 72cc heads, his CR would be what you said.... 9.7:1, like Dart says. What does he REALLY have? Who knows? But I'm guessing, having torn down a few of those mystery "gutless wonders" before, that looked good based on the parts list but wouldn't pull a greasy string out of a cat's posterior, it's more like the 8.6:1 combo.

cstraub
Jan 19th, 06, 8:40 AM
The combo's induction is very large for the CID, but to possible get some more power I would check and see where the cam is degreed in at. I would put the ICL on a 100 and loosen the lash on both the intake and exhaust .004". This will put some cylinder pressure in the engine and make the cam smaller. It should help. If this is successful then he will need to look at a smaller cam to optimize the combo down the road.

Natural Born Killer
Jan 19th, 06, 10:19 AM
I agree with most of these guys to a point. I like the comp cams 280 and much smaller heads. Personaly I find nothing wrong with the intake setup. I did an experiment with manifolds on my old 327. Tried Torquer II, Performer, performer RPM, and victor JR. The Victor made the most power. Swapped a 600 holley for a 750 holley and made way more power throughout rpm range. Swapped 2500 converter for a 3k unit and picked up a bunch of E.T. So I went from a 14.50 car to a 13.0 car. Then I put 200 cc heads on and 292 cam in and suddenly had a 14.50 car again.

Rmchevelle
Jan 19th, 06, 12:35 PM
It depends on how much change he wants to make and if he wants to do it piecemeal or all at once. The 274 cam will be a better match. The heads are too big but they can stay on if he wants to take the piecemeal approach and just change the cam and stick a Performer RPM on for now. He can then change the heads out later. Should be able to sell the 215 heads easily to recoup some funds. It would be easier to change the heads while it's torn down for the cam change but harder on the wallet. His choice. :thumbsup:

Rod

greg_moreira
Jan 19th, 06, 5:45 PM
Yeah, that cam would make a rather large improvement....and if you could swap the intake at the same time for a performer rpm, it would be much better matched to the gearing, converter, and compression. Of course, the heads will still be on the large side......but these changes may be enough to make him happy. If not, later on he can swap out to better flowing heads that are more properly matched. That should help things further.

Motorhead62
Jan 19th, 06, 5:57 PM
Here is a thought. Swap all those parts onto a 383 or 400 SBC short block with flat top pistons!

Or, pull the heads and check out the combo. If needed, mill the heads, add steel shim head gaskets and gain some cylinder pressure.

The cam change idea is a good one since the part is on hand. Don't forget that new lifters are required too.

Good Luck! :D