Is it possible to tint "regular" 2k primer surfacers with color? I have been checking around, and decided on the Martin Senour paint line, thanks mostly to MartinSr http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif, and the fact that its SW paint but 30% off (read WHITE BOX PAINT).

I was initially set on using the 5103 tintable primer, until I found out that it was $200 for 1 gallon w/reducer, etc. AND $54 a quart (no extras applied?!=which doesn't seem right to me BUT?!)

I was looking through a Truckin' magazine from around '99, and it had an article in there about "primer painting your truck". Thats what I want to do- a "primer paint job", except with a little splash of color to liven it up a little. It said that pulling it off was as simple as adding a LITTLE color to your urethane surfacer. You could also do flames and the like, if that was what you so desired. This would have been super easy with the 5103, but I simply dont have the money, and want to try to it a little cheaper- of course keeping the integrity of the primer.

In place of the Tint/PRime, could I use an equivalent gray urethane primer surfacer- such as Econobody NAPA (Sherwin Williams) # 15221, and tint it with a little color- Green in my case? I assume it would be UV resistant, since its a urethane, and also water "proof" if not sanded? I'd love to use the Tint/PRime, just can't afford it right now.

As an aside- the paint desk person at the NAPA I HAVE TO GO TO since its the ONLY NAPA that sells paint is a trip. When I talked to him about the tinted primer, he said "you can't tint etching primer". I never asked about Etching primer- I asked him about Urethane Primer surfacer and he continued with "you can't tint etching primer". He continued to tell me that most bodywork calls for Block sanding of either A.) a SEALER?! or B.)the ETching Primer?!- WTF'?! http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif
I then went on to tell him that I recieved specific advice from a 25 yrs. in the field bodyman/painter, that Urethane Primer surfacer is best for blocking, durable and used 99.5% of the time by the pros. He then continued to point out his certification on the wall that he recieved....6 MOS AGO! I digress...I had a good laugh on the way home.

Thanks to all here (especially MartinSR) for any REAL advice that I know that I can rely on-

.....and Thanks to AL GORE for this invaluable resource!!!! (J/K) http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

You pushed a little with the 99.5%, I'm sure that it is a huge majority, but I know it is not that high. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif The problem with tinting a "regular" urethane primer is that they have such strong pigments in them. You need quite a bit of toner to overcome the gray pigment in the 15221. So if you only add say 10% you may end up with a puke pee green.

The Tint/PRIME uses a dryer and toners from the Tec/BASE system, that is where it gets it's UV protection from. A "regular" urethane will not have it. The Tint/PRIME has little pigment in it before tinting so the colors can be quite vibrant.

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1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

By the way, if you check out some other manufactures like PPG, Sikkens, etc. you will find that there are recommendations to tint their "regular" urethane primers. Some look like I mentioned with the weak color, others are not that bad. You would need to do some research.

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1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

I too read MartinSr's messages with great interest and learn tons. We all appreciate his willingness to share.

I am often astounded by his mastery of the technical aspects as well as the technical jargon.

I would like to thank him for a new one this day. PUKE PEE GREEN..... what a cool technical description. (just funnin)



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Texas_Tom 69 Coupe in progress, in progress, in progress ....

Check out the DPLF line of epoxy primers from PPG if that is all you want to do to your vehicle. DPLF has a cool blue green color you might like. There are other colors you might like, or mix a few together. If you are going to just prime and paint at a later date, while driving, the DP is the way to go. Check it out and good luck.

HMMMMM. MartinSR- I dont think Pee Puke Green (or was that Puke Pee Green?) is the look I am going for ?! http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

Since the Tint/Prime has the special dryers and toners for added protection, it still just seems like a better deal, eventhough its expensive. I just cant see priming then repriming because of chalkiness, fading, etc, due to a primer thats simply not as durable.

I'm kind of looking at it this way- If I use the MS Tint Prime (which I would really like to use, but its expensive, although that could be a short run thing), the PDS says you can scuff and shoot the color. That saves some money there when I am ready to paint, because I might be able to get away with not using a sealer.

Secondly, a Urethane primer that DOES NOT have the "stability" in weather and sunlight kind of defeats the whole purpose of what I was trying to do. Once again, I assume I would have to scuff it, and reshoot it, OR scuff it, buy a sealer, and seal it. It is starting to look like its about the same cost all the way around.

Also, I assume that since the Primer would be Green, and the paint would be green, I might be able to get away with using less "final" product to achieve the desired result?

Budruski, its funny. I was initially going to use PPG DP40. However, the local shop here told me that they dont make it anymore. I can see that its DPLF40, etc. From what I can recall of researching that, it is an Epoxy primer? So, how would it hold up against UV and the like?

As for MartinSr's advice (and others here for that matter), his willingness to share also is REALLY appreciated by me. He has nothing to sell, really no reason to BS anybody, and he posts on A LOT of boards (and I ought to know- I search and search , etc. before I post a topic http://www.chevelles.com/forum/frown.gif http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif). THAT is advice that is truly well heeded, and I GREATLY appreciate his candor and succinctness!


[This message has been edited by JU87 (edited 03-27-2002).]

JU87, ". That saves some money there when I am ready to paint, because I might be able to get away with not using a sealer."

"Might" is not the word, you will NOT need a sealer. I'm telling you, Tint/PRIME is urethane, it is insoluable and is the PERFECT base for color. I do almost everything I ever restore in Tint/PRIME an have found it to work amazingly well. There is zero shrinkage, the color convers well, you have no added texture, it's perfect I tell you. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif


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1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MARTINSR:

"Might" is not the word, you will NOT need a sealer. I'm telling you, Tint/PRIME is urethane, it is insoluable and is the PERFECT base for color. I do almost everything I ever restore in Tint/PRIME an have found it to work amazingly well. There is zero shrinkage, the color convers well, you have no added texture, it's perfect I tell you. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

WELL MartinSr, Your faith in this product has convinced me, as has the apparent durability of the tint/prime product. I think I'll give it a shot! I was quoted around $50-$60? for a primer/sealer from NAPA. SO like I said- it kind of evens the costs out. But then again- DARN, I wont be able to block sand the sealer, like I was told I should (I just dont understand that)!? http://www.chevelles.com/forum/frown.gif J/K.. Heres my lineup then-

Step 1. (After I get my bodywork as good as I can get it) MS Econobody 15210 Etching Primer (2qts- I dont have a whole car to etch prime).

Step 2.MS Tint/Prime 5103 Urethane PRimer- "it's perfect I tell you. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif" (1 Gal. since a quart is Ummm- cost prohibitive?!)

Seems like a good place to start, and the lack of needing a sealer snaps the cost back down to a reasonable level. Like I stated earlier, it also seems possible that less color might be requried to thoroughly cover the tint/primer, if I go Green/Green?

Eventhough $200 seems like a lot for a Gallon of primer, I would be willing to bet it will last longer and wear better than a "cheapie" $200 paint job where they're "so thorough at painting, they even paint the tailpipe!". Thanks Again, MartinSr. Your advice is great http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

Now, one thing I have to remind you about (I think I have mentioned this), the Tint/PRIME is slightly transparent. So don't expect it to completely cover any different patches of color in a coat or two. It does have high solids so it is filling well, just low pigment so it doesn't cover as well. Rememeber solids and pigments are two different things. The low VOC clear we use here in the San Fran bay area has MORE solids than the national rule urethane primer! But if you have it primed with the Econobody etch, it is already greenish. So your substrate for the Tint/PRIME will already be green. You may not even notice the transparency that I am talking about. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

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1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

By the way, if you like "Puke pea green" you'll love the new color "Blond". Email me for the description. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

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1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

Blond Huh, Wonder what that could be? http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif

As for the transparency of the tint prime, you did mention that in an earlier post. I asked the Paint desk person at Napa if it filled well (to see what he would say), and he said "no, not really". But I remember that you said it did, and figured he was maybe talking about it's transparency, because I know that you said it filled well.

One thing about transparency, though. I havent stripped the hood to metal (or the underside of the trunk lid- man, that would be TOUGH!), so I wasn't planning on etch priming those spots. I didn't think it was a real good idea to etch prime FULLY painted areas, because of the nature of the etching primer. I wanted to etch the bare areas, and "splotchy" (mostly bare, a little area of paint here and there- door jambs)areas. Then I was planning on laying down the tint/prime over ALL the areas- etched, AND OLD sanded and scuffed paint- Hood, Bottom of Trunk lid, Body (where the door swings into) Jambs, etc. I wanted to do this for uniformity of the first Tint/PRime coat. Also since it can be directly topcoated, I do want ALL areas to be painted covered with it.

Is this a good game plan? I don't expect the tint prime to cover like a top coat, but I'd like it to cover enough to last me a while. I think of all the products that I had on my "short list", that this tint/prime will work out the best- Again, MartinSR, THANKS !

[This message has been edited by JU87 (edited 03-28-2002).]

JU87, I think you have it. As far as filling, you paint guy must have drifted off during that part of the class six months ago. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif Would this guy had gone to the tech school in Reno NV. by any chance? Not that it matters much, I just know those guys love Tint/PRIME. You know, before I went to the tech school and learned about solids vs pigments, I too had no idea that it filled. I remember looking in the can at the paint store saying "this looks like watered down Elmers glue, it can't fill". The store owner stared at me with a dumb look on his face, "yeah what ever". HE never went to the tech school! He sure found time to go to NACE and go out to the parties put on by the manufactures though!

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1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

MartinSr,

I'm not sure where they went to school http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif. They are OK and all, but they seem to think that no one else has any idea of the basics (or have no resources, like the internet), which is a little annoying. When you have to argue with them about WHY YOU WANT to use a primer surfacer, it kind of stinks. Anyway, I'm just happy that they are able to sell me the products that I want to use!

I truly can't believe the price for some of the Martin Senour items in relation to their SW sister line. Just for giggles, I checked the cost on an etching primer from the SW dealer in town, and its almost 2X the cost as NAPA (once again, the Tint/Prime IS expensive- BUT on the WHOLE it is more reasonable)! I'm looking forward to trying it all out!!

Once again, I appreciate your advice on the selection of my system so far , and also introducing me to the MS line of paints! http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif