OK guys, any "experts" out there, or people with experience??

Here's the deal. Need a new driveway. The existing (concrete) is all spalled, pitted, and only goes 1/2 way up from the street. The remaining 1/2 to the garage is gravel/class 5. I'm tired of the dirt in the house, and flinging rocks with the snowblower!

Dimensions: 14' wide at the garage, tapering to 12' wide at the street apron, 97' long. There will also be a 23' x 23' "L" off the side to complete the front of the garage and a "turn-out" area.

Had a guy out for an estimate yesterday. His outfit does asphalt. Gave me some very good reasons to think about asphalt vs. concrete - climate, temp. cycles, etc. They use a material called "M.C." (??), over a dolemite compacted base.

Quote includes all permits, removal, grading, fill, base, compaction, and product. Warranty against excessive cracking (??), failure, etc. Average life expectancy is 30+ years. Been in business for 51.
Cost: $10,719

I remember the exact same question being posted here a year ago or so. Concrete was the overwhelming answer...

concrete!
if it is installed correctly, no maintenace issues whatsoever.
asphalt needs to be coated periodically.
david

Concrete!!!

You're in Minnessota - blocktop only. Concrete can not be salted. You will get frost heaves in the winter. All the new highway construction in the cold climates use concrete as a base then black top as a wear layer. Every concrete road in my area has been replaced or topped with blacktop. In a warm climate, I would do nothing but concrete, but where you get frezzing, it just doen't handle the winter conditions well.

Concrete!
It makes for better launches... ;)

You're in Minnessota - blocktop only. Concrete can not be salted. You will get frost heaves in the winter. All the new highway construction in the cold climates use concrete as a base then black top as a wear layer. Every concrete road in my area has been replaced or topped with blacktop. In a warm climate, I would do nothing but concrete, but where you get frezzing, it just doen't handle the winter conditions well.
EXSPANSION JOINTS, usually they do not put enough ...nicole

How about pavers? I would say asphault in a colder climate, it has a lot more give.

thats almost 6 dollars a sq. ft. kind of high for blacktop.
around here the going rate for tare out and replace of concrete depending on sq. footage is $8 or less. you have very little tare out.most likely none of the gravel would need hauled away.
here you don't even need a permit for anything other than apron at street.
the ground freezes under blacktop as well as concrete. asphalt will heave.and crack because it is frozen and loses its ability flex like it does when its hot.
i have done dozens of huge freezers for Khans, Meijer,Walmart. not a one of them had a blacktop floor in them.
it boils down to blacktop is just cheaper to do and replace. done right (sub base) and properly sealed it should out last whoever poured it.
you may want to get another price for concrete and blacktop.funny someone thats been in business for 51 years would even do such a small job

Concrete with an integrated water/anti-freeze system so you do not have to worry about shovelling it off. Turn on the heater wait 30 minutes and your drive will have no snow on it, no salt needed! Also everytime you tar your drive you will be cleaning tar off the rear quarters of your chevelle for weeks!!

Brick Pavers, I use them all the time for everything..
I bet you can get a price for $4.50 to $5.00 a square foot.
If your really interested I can order them for you and get a contractors rate for you.
Check them out
http://www.tremron.com/

We had thought about pavers until this winter - when I saw a guy down the block trying to shovel/snowblow on them!

(Honestly I was a "concrete" guy until talking to this estimator - he pointed out the following points that relate to my climate:
Asphalt..
1) The material that's used is the same, roadway grade stuff on the streets.
2) Their base material is custom crushed to their specification - no pockets or air-space, water infiltration - complete compaction.
3) Asphalt never "hardens", remains pliable even at 20 below.
4) Asphalt is one continuous "sheet".
4) Being oil/petroleum based, water does not seep in.
5) The sealer they use is gas/oil/grease resistant. Asphalt won't get gooey if promptly cleaned off.

Concrete..
1) Expansion joints are just that. They are a pre-made point so the slab will crack at a certain place.
2) These cracks allow water to get in/under the slab.
3) Repeated freeze/thaw cycles will cause heaves at the expansion joints
4) Gas/oil/grease will stain concrete
5) Kick stands & pogo sticks won't dent concrete

I'm still listening guys... but remember - in a twelve month period of time we go from -20 to +102, with a dozen hard freeze/thaw cycles thrown in!

John, Can the present concrete be resurfaced? One of the biggest costs is removal of old driveway. Get some members together on a Sat with a couple of pros and pour it. I know one guy who does this on the side if you want.

John, you can also get pavers in 1'x1' or even 2'x2' squares, and should be the same price they go by the square foot all the same, that would make it alot easier to shovel the snow? We dont get snow here in Florida, LOL
Also they make a special paver sealer for them and you cant stain them with oil,ect.

Concrete, I live in Iowa and faced your same question back in 00. I went with concrete and have been extremely glad I did. They told me not to use any ICE melt on it the first winter. It still looks new. I keep the expansion cuts cleaned out but thats just me.

Had a guy out for an estimate yesterday.

Sounds like Asphalt Driveway Company?? They did my driveway in November. Come check it out if you like.

If a guy come over in an Orange PT cruiser wanting to pave your driveway chase him away.

Lets see :
Asphalt, soft, no jacking or jack stands w/o plywood, hot in summer even on creaper.
Concrete, none of the above. <--my vote.

I live in Cleveland & have the same climate issues as you..My concrete driveway is almost 12 years old and has no cracks whatsoever.. I do, however seal it every fall, I'm not sure if it helps with spalling & cracking but it sure helps the ice come off easy..

Scott

I vote for concrete as well.

Use rebar in the slab, not below it and the heaves will be controlled.

Also you just can't salt concrete for the first year, after that as long as you don't use excessive amounts, its fine. Also their is a new product out that is a liquid, you spray it on before a snowfall and snow and ice melt off as it falls. The city of Green Bay has been trying it out on some main arterials, works good and is saving them money. Won't damage concrete in any way.

If you were to get a concrete guy over to do an estimate, very likely he woud have more good points for his product. A good salesman will convince you why his product is better, no matter what it really is.

You could always do half concrete and half asphalt. At least then you have a solid work area that doesn't fry you in the summer. But the cost would be considerably less.

Listen to the masses, concrete is the way to go.

Jeff

Hmm, I could almost start a study. Had a nice slab poured in May, parking for 2 cars, and they just paved my street yesterday. Of course, the only time it'll get cold is if I spill my drink on it. :D

I like concrete......much more durable than asphault...of course the odwnside besides being more expensive is if you have a car that leaks oil it usually shows up, whereas asphault it sort of blends in.....

I like concrete......much more durable than asphault...of course the odwnside besides being more expensive is if you have a car that leaks oil it usually shows up, whereas asphault it sort of blends in.....

But the oil stains can usually be cleaned off, occasionally... Oil and gas (leaks/spills) on Asphalt will cause it to soften... Sure, their sealer "supposedly" seals out oil, but it needs to be reapplied, and probably every year...

My parents installed an asphalt driveway, and after a few leaks (and nothing constant, because we took care of our cars and driveway), the drive started to get soft... too soft for the jack, engine hoist, etc... To top it off, that "soft" driveway would sometimes stick to our shoes,and made a nice mess on the carpet in the house...

I also agree with "concrete", especially if you are going to work on your car in the driveway...

Proper concrete mix, additives and curing should create a durable lasting surface... As a civil engineer, I also agree with placing rebar, or welded-wire fabric at the minimum...

But the oil stains can usually be cleaned off, occasionally...

Key word...."usually"....at my work we have a cemented area that has alot of oil/fuel/hydraulic fluid stains.....the pressure washer gets most of it up but every so often you'll still see the stain, just not as bad.

But all in all I'd still go concrete. Not only does asphault not hold jack stands and such, but if you ever have a fuel spill.....it'll eat a nice hole.....and turn it into loose gravel. ;)

A neighbour laid interlocking brick in his driveway 15-20 years ago and it still looks good. If you ever have settling problems, just lift the brick, level and re-install. The heaving by frost around here tends to destroy anything else, especially if you are in a damp area.