hey guys its been a long time since i've written chevelle tech , almost a year, anyhow since the beginning of this year i had finished building a engine for my 68 el camino , my pops and i had built her almost too good , so we decided to take her down to a fabricator/engineer to have the rear back halfed , coiled over with a ten point roll cage , with custom tinned interior/rear firewall/dash/floorpans/bed/tubbs/steering column/seat mounts........ i paid for materials via chris alstons chassis works , and told the kid that i would initialy pay him as he goes, this started in feb. after a month and a half and throwing the kid a few hundred here and there , and already having him supplied with everything he needed , no progress was being done, I should have pulled her out then , but due to the rear end out , felt it would have been difficult, at that point he uped the price after i chewed him out for not doing anything ( he originally quoted me a couple thousand to do the labor) and after discussing everything we both agreed with a handshake that he'd work 40 hours a week and i'd pay him four hundred a week , well i kept my end of the deal and after a total of seven months , and damn near killin this punk kid , took my ride out of his shop, i gave this kid every single benefit of the doubt and obviously got screwed, to date the kid has been paid 6800 for labor and i not only have the job NO WHERE near finished , but having 4-5 old school welders/fabricators look her over , realize that not only was work done wrong , but roll cage was installed wrong / floor pans were getting ready to be welded to the frame/ backhalf not inline , none of the firewall completed or dash or bed tinning none of it , i was supposed to get this car back complete and basically ready to race, i got neither , currently we have filed a complaint with the small claims court , trying to get our 5000 back to pay for reverse engineering to correct and finish this idiots attempt at work , ( i feel stupid , since i dont know how to do fabricating ) regardless , i need to find a honest/ reliable and consistant fabricator/tinner/and some one with nhra understanding of how drag strip cars are built , does anyone have any imput on shops here in sacramento , ca.? ps i also found out that this kid has no buisiness license and no insurance on his shop and was paying his non employee under the table to work on my ride , i've already called better buisiness bureau and eviromental protection agency , ( he'd been throwing waste directly into dumpster) and reported him to anyone else i could think of , please help I want to have this car finished for hot august nights, thanks jackson 1-916-719-9643 cell ......... also if you want to view our work and what has been done please copy link and paste to address , most of the back half work is on page 8 or 9-14 www.cardomain.com/id/seanselky

I hate to be the one that says it,Sean,but I warned you about going for the low-dollar builder. Very sorry to hear it didn't work out.

If you weren't so far away,you could use my chassis builder.

$6800 + materials is "low dollar"!!!

You guys have way too much money on your hands. Care to throw some to a starving car enthusiast? :D

Sorry for your predicament, I can't even imagine how hard I'd be strangling that guy right now.

I hate to be the one that says it,Sean,but I warned you about going for the low-dollar builder. Very sorry to hear it didn't work out.

If you weren't so far away,you could use my chassis builder.
i know , i know , i feel plenty stupid, i honestly thought this punk knew what he was doing , , but i should've known better , but beyond all that i need to find some one reliable and good and fair with pricing , also someone who can do the job quick , so that i can have her completed by and before august

thank you jpete, i'll look more into it when i get home from work , believe me i dont trust myself around this kid , the punk had the nerve to offer a 1000 back , i told him this will take easily 3000 to wrap up , not to mention reverse engineering to correct his work and then starting over agian and buying new materials !

you were gonna pay him $400 a week for 40 hours of work?
damn, $10 an hour for chassis fabrication. that's cheap.

you were gonna pay him $400 a week for 40 hours of work?
damn, $10 an hour for chassis fabrication. that's cheap.
go look at my website, and you'll see what i paid for

go look at my website, and you'll see what i paid for

I think he means that a good shop would've wanted quite a bit more than 10 bucks an hour for that type of work. Probably at least 5 times as much.

Then again, I doubt any shop would have 40 hours to work on just one customer's car. Unless its the only car in the shop.

I know of a guy in Napa that owns a muffler shop and he builds chassis in a extra bay. He is very good but I don`t know what he would charge or if he would even take on the job. Alot of guys won`t fix someone elses mistakes. Good luck.

go look at my website, and you'll see what i paid for

Hey Sean,
Sorry about your raw deal....Car looks great though....Can't wait to see it finished.
I have a question for you off-topic. I was lookin at your pics, and was wondering what brand/color paint did you use for your front springs, brake parts, etc?
I have been looking for a silver that isn't too "chrome-paint-like", and I like the way yours turned out. Thanks, and good luck!
-Gambi69

I am in Sac and I have buddy that does this in Elk Grove (drag cars). I do circle track cars. For me to do a cage I charge $45/hr +material and I am not a business, I do this out of my garage. I hand bend all cages with a manderal bender, dont really mess with kits on cages. Sometimes I will do a job for a single price, but I charge roughly $250 a day if it is not a hourly job. On a job like you are asking for I would have expected to spend 10-15K if you are looking for show quality (that means bead rolling all the tin, killer seams, dzus panels, etc) and meeting NHRA rules.

Is that all mild steel or chromoly on the cage?

I could look at it an give you some advice or even do some of the work or maybe we can talk to my buddy. If you are intrested send me a private message. I live in Fair Oaks.

My buddy charges about $60 an hour and some of his cars (he builds them complete, minus paint) will run 40-60K to build and he only does about 4 a year.

go look at my website, and you'll see what i paid for

A good fabricator cost $60/hr typically with them ranging in my area from $50 - $90/hr

Hey Sean,
Sorry about your raw deal....Car looks great though....Can't wait to see it finished.
I have a question for you off-topic. I was lookin at your pics, and was wondering what brand/color paint did you use for your front springs, brake parts, etc?
I have been looking for a silver that isn't too "chrome-paint-like", and I like the way yours turned out. Thanks, and good luck!
-Gambi69
well thank you ! first we sandblasted old parts and i did it wrong, we used rattle can , but next time i will go and spend the money and buy professional paint from the paint shop and spray it my self and seal it , the color is gun metal grey , and it kinda looks like cleared new stock , also even though we did all that work , i think i'm gonna go with a trick A arm set with 70/30 vari shocks

I'd have to see some much closer detailed pictures of the welds to make a statement on the welds.

What it appears to me is that Darkstar is using a Welding tecnique called "Pulse welding". And the resulting welds look exactly like the ones pictured.

I disagree with some of Billy's approches on mounting points, and his choice of floor pan. I wouldnt use what looks like Plate steel on a drag car when most use Steel or Aluminum sheetmetal.

He should have made things alot differently.

However I'm not understanding a few things, Is this guy someone who claims that he builds race cars?

If he's just a guy who fabricates, and you came to him with this job, then he doesnt have a knowledge of how race cars are built

How did you guys come to the agreement at $400/week?

In my Honest, unbiased opinion, it sounds like you headed down this path, based strickly on an Hourly Rate, and you want Don Ness Results at apprentice prices.

I'd like to hear both sides of this story.

Generally if i'm looking to have a job done that i dont do, like BodyWork or having a trans built. I go off the guys reputation and previous projects FIRST, Price is LAST.

Price is the least important factor, becuase you will spend alot more money doing it twice!

Not to kick a guy when he's down, but I'm gonna' agree with Brian on this
one big time. Another consideration on a chassis job is safety. The very
nature of a vehicle like this is such that someone will eventually want to
make it faster. I would be very leery of turning loose a beginner on a chassis
that I know darn well will be asked to produce 10 second et's and perhaps beyond in the future. I would be crawling that thing for cracks before every
outing. Good luck in resurrecting this project, and take comfort in the fact
that you are certainly not the first guy to be disappointed by a "chassis
fabricator".

On a side note, is it just me, or this an industry that is notorious for underbids
and late deliveries? It sure seems that every time I farm any work out on
a project it comes back late and over budget!

I'd have to see some much closer detailed pictures of the welds to make a statement on the welds.

What it appears to me is that Darkstar is using a Welding tecnique called "Pulse welding". And the resulting welds look exactly like the ones pictured.

I disagree with some of Billy's approches on mounting points, and his choice of floor pan. I wouldnt use what looks like Plate steel on a drag car when most use Steel or Aluminum sheetmetal.

He should have made things alot differently.

However I'm not understanding a few things, Is this guy someone who claims that he builds race cars?

If he's just a guy who fabricates, and you came to him with this job, then he doesnt have a knowledge of how race cars are built

How did you guys come to the agreement at $400/week?

In my Honest, unbiased opinion, it sounds like you headed down this path, based strickly on an Hourly Rate, and you want Don Ness Results at apprentice prices.

I'd like to hear both sides of this story.

Generally if i'm looking to have a job done that i dont do, like BodyWork or having a trans built. I go off the guys reputation and previous projects FIRST, Price is LAST.

Price is the least important factor, becuase you will spend alot more money doing it twice!
well price was not the total factor , yes i'll admit it was what initially kicked it off, but due to the fact that this kid needed work and was hard up for work , he sold me on it , he had done other types of similiar work , for air bagged trucks and told me that there was'nt much difference, understand that i dont know this part of car buildining yet and i did look around , the prices were intimidating and i did see shops with high quality and also outta billy's but in the long run that price worked for both of us , now as for his welds , i've had seasoned welders tell me that his welds are cold welds and that they did'nt penetrate , also tim stephan commented on his floor pans and the points on the roll cage, and mentioned that he liked the idea of welding them to the frame but thought that he went about it and the subframe all together . last i am suing this kid and i've gotten a few quotes and need more to show in court , but besides this i do need a good / well respected builder to help me out , i will not settle for this and will ultimatly have everything wrong removed and replaced , but also the point that i've tried to make from the beginning is that this kid in seven months has done maybe three weeks of work to the car , regardless of the amount i'm giving him (which is paid in full ) and yes i did expect this to be quality work , I'll accept the fact i got suckered , i am still learning and feeling out the bs from the real

IMHO, you should've made a schedule of when he'd get paid, by work completed. If you two would've sat down and gone over every job required to come to a completed project, and broke down those steps into estimated hours, he would only have been paid half or less at this time. It was easy money for him to collect and BS you, without your inspection. If you showed up, and saw nothing done, you should've put your foot down, no work, no pay.

I have a friend's '71 GTO at the house for an engine rebuild. He's remodeling his house right now, and doesn't have space for it. I do have space, so at the moment, neither of us is worried about a timeline. The motor is rebuilt, and just needs a few parts to finish, which I've been keeping an eye out for, but not in a hurry for. As far as money goes, he's only given me parts money in the past. I exceed what he gives me, he pays up. No labor has been charged yet, as I don't want to make a final push, spend a day or two tweaking everything, and walk away with nothing but a couple hundred bucks. Not worth my time and effort now. And all that money I could've collected for labor has been nickel and dimed away, not much to show for it. I figure the car will be done at the end of this month, which will coincide with (hopefully) my annual bonus from work, and the sale of my truck to a guy at work (at bonus time). This should put me well over $5k, which the wife has agreed to let me spend on my projects, to get them finished. :thumbsup: It's something to work for, a goal.

This guy has no goal to finish, nor motivation to do a quality job, since he's basically doing it for free from this point on. Thus, you have no choice but to sue and pay someone else to finish it. But good luck getting paid, since if your efforts to shut this guy down are successful, you'll probably never see any money at all. Maybe sell the judgement to a collection agency, if they do buy from an individual. Good luck.

Only two shops in my STATE that I would trust to do the install of my 8 point bar kit, and both of them were close with the quotes.............about a thousand bucks using my kit and mods as needed. Good aint cheap and cheap aint good! Dont kill the kid............lawyers are VERY expensive!!!!

well price was not the total factor , yes i'll admit it was what initially kicked it off, but due to the fact that this kid needed work and was hard up for work , he sold me on it , he had done other types of similiar work , for air bagged trucks and told me that there was'nt much difference, understand that i dont know this part of car buildining yet and i did look around , the prices were intimidating and i did see shops with high quality and also outta billy's but in the long run that price worked for both of us , now as for his welds , i've had seasoned welders tell me that his welds are cold welds and that they did'nt penetrate , also tim stephan commented on his floor pans and the points on the roll cage, and mentioned that he liked the idea of welding them to the frame but thought that he went about it and the subframe all together . last i am suing this kid and i've gotten a few quotes and need more to show in court , but besides this i do need a good / well respected builder to help me out , i will not settle for this and will ultimatly have everything wrong removed and replaced , but also the point that i've tried to make from the beginning is that this kid in seven months has done maybe three weeks of work to the car , regardless of the amount i'm giving him (which is paid in full ) and yes i did expect this to be quality work , I'll accept the fact i got suckered , i am still learning and feeling out the bs from the real

Sean without seeing very detailed photos of the welds i couldnt give an opinion on the quality of them.
From the looks in the picture, it appears he used a Pulse Welder, which gives that look to it. And in my opinion the uniformity of his welds, are pretty nice.

I personally dont use a Pulse welder option, I've tried them out now and again, and they're pretty cool.

I dont know your fabricator friend, and i dont have any close pictures to inspect, so i cant say one way or the other on the Welding, and i dont go by anyone elses word.

If you want, take some up close pictures of the "cold" welds and post them, i'll give my opinion on them.

Sean,
No one else has really answered your question. If you really and truthfully want the job done correctly, what you need to do is call Alston, or S&W or any of the other few large chassis kit makers and ask them to recommend a builder near you. Forget about someone's buddy who does it on the side. Forget about the muffler shop guy who uses his extra bay, forget about anyone who is not a true, insured and licensed business. Find someone who does NHRA or IHRA chassis certification and see who they recommend. In other words, find a professional chassis builder and get on with it.
Just my opinion,

I agree with Bill K. Call Chassisworks and talk to them. They will tell you someone in the area. I remember when I called them there was a place in Yuba City and one in Woodland. It has been a while but I think it was Mike Dweedle that I spoke to. After buying all of that stuff from them Im sure you remember who you bought it from.

Dave

Sean,
Forget about the muffler shop guy who uses his extra bay, forget about anyone who is not a true, insured and licensed business. Find someone who does NHRA or IHRA chassis certification and see who they recommend.

He might be a muffler guy who uses a extra bay but he has been building cars long before he owned a muffler shop and they do certify. I`m not taking any offence to the comment, just letting you know that the guy isn`t some fly by night idiot. He knows what he is doing. There is a guy in Woodland. I think his shop is called Wizard racing and there is another guy in the Auburn area. 2 of my buddies usede him. I think his name is Sormento? Don`t know the name of the shop but I could find out if youre interested.

Sean,
No one else has really answered your question. If you really and truthfully want the job done correctly, what you need to do is call Alston, or S&W or any of the other few large chassis kit makers and ask them to recommend a builder near you. Forget about someone's buddy who does it on the side. Forget about the muffler shop guy who uses his extra bay, forget about anyone who is not a true, insured and licensed business. Find someone who does NHRA or IHRA chassis certification and see who they recommend. In other words, find a professional chassis builder and get on with it.
Just my opinion,

Bill I'm an ME student, and a Fabricator.

Anthony,
I really didn't mean to single ou that particular guy, just trying to make a point about a lot of people claiming to be chassis builders but really are not.
Brian,
I was an EE student, and built my own Camaro drag car that passed NHRA certification but ... I would not build a car for someone else and dont think that anyone else should be either. If you want to build your own, thats one thing, but building them for others without the proper insurances etc is wrong.

Bill,
I'm offering my opinion As a fabricator. I dont plan on building his car, i'm in NJ.

I didn't think you were Brian, I just couldn't figure what your point was in the context of this post ?

Figured i should Qualify my opinion is all.

Alston and others may be able to help, but word of mouth from other racers is the best approach to finding a chassis builder.

Good work is not always easily defined, but you know it when you see it. Checking out the other work at the track is an excellent place to start.

I do however agree with your opinion that the job is best done by a real chassis builder.

Just something to add here.

When you take this ride to someone else to fix, expect the quote to be MUCH higher than if this shop had done the work from the beginning. I've come behind hack work and more often than not, it takes ALOT longer to take apart and fix what they did wrong compared to starting the job from scratch.

Sorry for your bad luck, but this is a prime example of folks needing to take a good deal of time checking out contractors and seeing prior examples of work performed.

I work in a fab shop myself building custom cars. The best advice I can give is WORD OF MOUTH. Talk to locals at the race track and figure out whos happy with a car they had built somewhere nearby. Ask several people to develop a concensus. Don't just pick up the phone book and decide on a shop because it's convineint, you might have to travel a ways to find quality. We charge $50 an hour and that's about as low as your going to find.

Anthony,
I really didn't mean to single ou that particular guy, just trying to make a point about a lot of people claiming to be chassis builders but really are not.

Bill, I know that. I was just trying to say that just because the guy doesn`t do it for a living ful time, doesn`t mean he doesn`t know what he is doing. Sometimes when you turn your hobby into a carreer, it`s not your hobby anymore and it takes the fun out of it. I found out the hard way. I`m a Harley mechanic who doesn`t own a bike anymore and I really don`t care about trying to get another bike. Some of the best fabricators and mechanics I`ve meet, keep it as a hobby. It may not be Alston ot Chassis Enginering but it`s just as good.

hey guys thanks so much for steppin up and speakin your minds , I did ask chris alstons for advice on whom to go to and they recommended thornhill , but the wait and the price was too steep , not to say that it was'nt worth it , they had a 66 or 67 chevelle in their shop that was simply stunning, but i'm not building a show car , i'm building a drag strip ride , i have been told by folks i trust to check out bob bunker up in placerville and i have been talking to tim stephan , and willy built , all of which seem to know their ****, i am gonna settle for nothing but great quality , i will look into these other fella's just to hear or see what they've got to say also , their opinions will definitly give me a rounder idea of what is right and wrong, also has anyone heard of the fella's i've mentioned and have any input on them?