upon much thought i feel that it would be considerably easier to split my good condition chevelle ( only damage is a smashed in piller ) and connect it to my other chevelle ( major cancer in the back ) i know many die harders out there have done this and i would be extremely thankfull for advise as well as websites pertaining to this thankyou for the help - josh

Can you post photo's? It would be helpful to see the condition of both cars. Sectioning (clipping) can be done nicely if you have tools, patience, and a careful eye for detail. It is also possible to end up with a hacked up mess. Karl

I have the same situation right now.I've been putting if off for awhile now.

Are you thinking about cutting it at the a-pillars and across the center of the floor pan from door to door?

It's definetly going to cut into the resell value if you decide to sell it in the future.But i'll never sell mine.

I'm with Karl, if it is done properly it is fine. In fact, if it is done properly it will have NO affect on resale value what so ever. If done correctly no one would ever know you did it.

If you really plan on doing it, we will walk you through. The first thing is to look for the best place to splice the floor. The roof posts and rockers are no problem, the floor is the hardest part to do clean. Look for a place that you can cut apart by drilling spot welds. I don't know if that floor is one or two pieces from the factory, fill us in. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

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1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

71 Chevelle is 2 or 3 pieces. Well actually 5 if you count to toe panels. Not sure if they floor was one piece from the factory. But.....2 full lengths, 2 toe pans and 1 underseat panel. 5 total panels for the floor. The front/rear floor panel goes all the way up to where it meets the back seat bottom.

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1969 Chevelle Malibu
307 Powerglide 10 bolt
2nd owner
All original with 2 inches of documentation.

It's amazing, after all this time she still runs.

Azure Turquoise Malibu (http://www.geocities.com/yenko_chevelle_1969/MyChevellehomepage.html?1038125434440)

My busted steering wheel. (http://www.datazap.net/free/chevyprowler/charzard.jpg)

AIM Screen Name = YenkoChevelle69. Gimme a yell anytime.

We have just done this to a 66, if somebody can post a few pics for me I would gladly show them since my website is not up from being redone yet. we basically grafted 2 cars plus a lot of replacement trunk pans and some front floor.

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Micky Hale Restorations
69 L-89 Chevelle
68 Biscayne 427/425
34 Plymouth Drag Car
ACES #134
www.mickyhale.com (http://www.mickyhale.com)

Splitting the floor on those chevelles is pretty easy. there is a factory seem about four inches below the toe board area. The next seem is right where the trunk divder welds from the package tray to the floor behind the rear seat. So clipping that cowl would be fairly easy

Clipping a car is fine, done everyday in shops. Its basically reconnecting a car at the factory seems so why wouldnt it be a good repair method.

I highly recommend that if you havent done such a job that you take it too a shop and have done. Like mentioned before if done right you cant tell its been done, done poorly and you got nothing but a mess

One body shop i talked to said it was illegal to do it.Says its unsafe,i tried to tell him a chevelle isn't a unibody car.That the frame supports the suspension,not the body.

There have been some accidents caused by people trying to do this on a unibody car.I'm sure a chevelle will be fine.

I have asked for help on this subject before and no one seemed to know anything about it.

Atleast now im getting some info too.

Thanks,

well im very thankfull martinsr that you'll help me for the longhaul and to the rest of you for helping. my thing is that i want to to everything on my car MYSELF. God has givin me some good talents and i wish to use them so definitly no bodyshop. second is the best way to cut it with a plasma cutter? and how to you "drill out the spot welds" i'll need some help on this one but as soon as i get enough info im game to start. and last resale value means nothing to me i bought the first one for 1200 and the second for 800 if worst comes to worst i think i can handle those loses lol. so please keep up the comments it helps alot

At one point in time these cars were nothing but "dirt in the ground". Anything built can be rebuilt. Am not aware of any laws that define sectioning procedures (clipping). There are "Industry accepted standards". They apply to both Unit body vehicles and full frame. These standards have been established by ICAR, Inter-industry Conference on Auto collision Repair. As stated before full frame vehicles are more forgiving, and the standards are more flexible. In general, the following procedures would be accepted and in most cases required. Weld thru primers in all welded areas. All pillar splices should be staggered. Wherever possible sections should be split and rewelded at factory seam. Sleeves should be utilized under ALL butt welds. Factory spot welds may be replaced with plug welds. As a practical matter if there is no floor seam that is practical to use, it is appropriate to perform a lap seam in conjunction with a crossmember location. Corrosion protection must be applied to all welded areas, both interior and exterior. I repeat, if done properly this method can provide excellent results. The person performing these tasks needs to be well equipped with welders, cutting tools, spot weld cutters, drills, corrosion protection products, caulk, clamps, position clamps and jacks. They should be a trained and certified welder. This is NOT the job for an amateur. In fact, there are many body technicians that would have difficulty doing this properly. As I type this in I have a 2002 silverado P/U in the shop that was rolled over and repaired in Oklahoma. Roof and rear cab were sectioned by shop at windshield pillars, floor, and rockers in lower door opening. Vehicle owner had "issues" with repair. Poor fits, wind noises, cosmetic, and mechanical related concerns. Insurance Company asked us to open pillars and rockers and check for sleeves, weld quality, and corrosion protection. Repair shop failed on ALL counts. No sleeves, no corrosion protection, no staggered splices, interior pillar reinforcements not welded at all. If involved in another severe collision this truck would not react as designed by Manufacturer. We wrote an $8000.00 plus estimate to correct prior repair. This was a repairable vehicle that is now probably going to be "bought back" by Insurance Company.---torquefactory--- you can do this, if you have the knowledge, training and tools. If you don't, find a GOOD PROFESSIONAL to help. Karl

Karl i appreciate your concern and will research all the following techniques. as far as welding is concerned ive got that covered. at my work theres a certified welder shop where one of the employees there "very skilled and experianced welder" is avid on helping me with my project. so where do i start. First of all karl explanation of the different welds would be nice. i have no clue what butt, spot, and other welds are on my car. second i will invest in the corrosion protection products. and last what kind of caulking is to be used

Torque, butt weld is when two pieces of metal are butted up next to each. They dont touch and sit on the same plane. Think of it as welding a crack up in a piece of metal. A spot weld is the factory type of weld used to join to pieces of metal. You will see them all over your car, look for small circle like depressions in the metal. A lap weld is when two pieces are overlaping each other and that seem were they join is welded. PIcture it as overlapping your hands and welding were your fingers touch your palms. A plug weld is the autobody replacement for the spot weld. It is made by drilling a hole through only the first layer of metal then welding it shut, thus joining it to the layer of metal underneath.

Sleeves are used to aid in strengh well butt welding. Say you want to split the rocker in half, you cant lap weld them back together cause it would flare out so you got to butt weld it. This is where the sleeve comes in play. The sleeve is first welded to the backside of the rocker using plug welds. Then the other half of the rocker is then slide over the sleeve and butted up next to the other side of the rocker. The sleeve is then plug welded to the other side of the rocker, and then both sides of the rocker are butt welded together. The sleeve is a comb of both the lap and butt weld, it maintains the strengh of the lap but gains in the looks of the butt.

the stagger splices are like a stair up effect. They are used to make sure THAT all of the interior pillar is welded just not the outside of the pillar.

As for corrosion protection you need weld thru primer on all of your welded joints. It doesnt burn away like other primers so it seals the metal after welding is done. 3m or SEM have good weld thru.

And once again clipping a car is not for the first time body man. You got to know where to cut and when to cut. Make sure that the car remains in alginment as you remove the clip and reattach it. Like I mentioned before i suggest you seak the help of a body shop, otherwise you might end up with something that you cant fix. Just trying to sound realistic...Eric

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1970 chevelle
1970 chevelle SS455 not a typo its a BUICK BABY
1949 and 1972 chevy trucks
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/sevt_chevelles

With your welder friend you are part of the way there. He should be familiar with all the welds described. As he is closer he will be your best resource. Now you need a GOOD local body person to coach you through the procedures. That person can assist in determining the best locations for cuts, seams and optimum method for each area. This process requires that all must be properly cut, trimmed, sleeved, and a very careful approach to heat control maintained during welding. Do a search here using MARTINSR as a keyword in body shop section. He has produced volumes of information which will be of great value to you. Another option for someone with good knowledge would be a vocational school autobody instructor. Do you have any in the area that have night classes? If so,sign up. Good Luck, Karl

http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif I happen to be writing a "Basics of Basics" on what type of weld to choose.
http://members.aol.com/basicofbasics/weldgraffic.jpg

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1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

I have a 87 turbo regal that this was done to. The car had 45,00 miles on it and the back of it got connected with a telephone pole and the owners insurance totalled it. I had my body man put a back half from another regal on it. The car is just as tight today as any regal I have rode in. Find someone versed in this and go for it. As far as resale, it may change it some, but for my regal I have had some nice offers on it even after I tell someone about it being cut in 2.

THT,
John Weaver

I did it on a Valiant in 1980. My Dad did most of it. I have pictures on my website probably, won't help except maybe to encourage.

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64 ElCamino (http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Jul/20027306594843713937468.jpg) 350 700r4 3.42 posi website (http://tiresmoke.iwarp.com/)

I found some info too.
http://www.nolfdodge.com/Bodyshop/Full_body_Sectioning/Full_Body_sec_2/esc15.gif
http://www.nolfdodge.com/Bodyshop/Full_body_Sectioning/Full_Body_sec_2/esc16.gif
http://literature.lord.com/chemical/fusor/frps/DS-FusorFRP31.0.pdf
http://www.nolfdodge.com/Bodyshop/Full_body_Sectioning/Full_Body_Sec_1/full_body_se c_1.html (http://www.nolfdodge.com/Bodyshop/Full_body_Sectioning/Full_Body_Sec_1/full_body_sec_1.html)

[This message has been edited by supersport396_2000 (edited 01-04-2003).]

sevt your information is extremely valueable and i appreciate your time and effort you put into explaining that. and supersport you picks will help thankyou. as far as a body man is concerned i have been enrolled in an R.O.P bodyshop class for two years. im am a certified bodyman as well as painter. the teacher and i are good friends so im sure he can assist in locations for cuts. my one quesion was never answered though do you cut it with a plasma cutter? if so i need to purchase one any suggestions

Here is a good diagram showing the sleeve (http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/25ebf0f1/bc/other+stuff/__hr_sleave.jpg?bc8bvF.AEdbbVVbT) method that was mentioned.This is for a c/k chevy truck but its the same method you could use on any car.

I wouldn't use a plasma cutter,i'd use a nibler for the floorpan and a hack saw for the pillars.

The plasma cutter leaves a nasty molten jagged edge on the metal.

"Butt weld with backing" IS the "sleave" method. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

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1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

Isn't that considered a "rebody" if you use the front of one car and the back of the other?

Not exactly Martin.A butt weld has the to peices 'butted' tight together and welded.A sleave joint should have a gap equal to one and a half the thickness of the metal you are using.Heres that diagram,Click on it to enlarge it.the above link doesn't seem to be working.
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/ochrisl/vwp?.dir=/other+stuff&.dnm=sleave.jpg&.src=ph&.view=t


[This message has been edited by 70isfine (edited 01-04-2003).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joey B:
Isn't that considered a "rebody" if you use the front of one car and the back of the other? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, a rebody is when you remove the ID tags and drive train components from one car and place everything onto ANOTHER car and passing it off as that car. For example, finding a totalled Numbers matching L-89 Chevelle and taking your grandmas cherry malibu and switch the vin, and trim tags and all other components to the malibu. Have you ever seen the original gone in 60 seconds? Remember the insurance scam with the Challanger? That is rebodying.
What torque factory is doing is just replacing panels with the entire back half of a parts car so to speak. Afterall, he is only replacing all sheet metal on the back half of the car. IE Quarters, trunk, wheel tubs, etc. They make all these things aftermarket, so why not use the real thing? This way it's all welded together already http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif


------------------
1969 Chevelle Malibu
307 Powerglide 10 bolt
2nd owner
All original with 2 inches of documentation.

It's amazing, after all this time she still runs.

Azure Turquoise Malibu (http://www.geocities.com/yenko_chevelle_1969/MyChevellehomepage.html?1038125434440)

My busted steering wheel. (http://www.datazap.net/free/chevyprowler/charzard.jpg)

AIM Screen Name = YenkoChevelle69. Gimme a yell anytime.

Do not buy a plasma cutter, unless you love having every tool ever made. We have one in our shop, the staff loves it, however it is only used a couple of times a month. We have 5 experienced collision techs. We fix a lot of cars. As stated by others you can have very good results by using a cut off wheel, nibbler, hack saw, sawzall, spot weld cutter, and a drill. Glad to hear you have taken time to learn at a trade school. If you take your time, think it through, use the experience of others, you will do well. Karl

Karl,
I bet you picked up a little business this morning! What a mess. I had just pulled out of the driveway and turned onto Hwy 70 on my way to Madison Lake when it started to rain. Two seconds later I was sideways and could do nothing. Fortunately, all turned out well but it was 35 mph all the way to Faribault.

Ok, now back to your regular scheduled program. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif

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ACES #5032
TC #1074

Towed 5 in, did a roughout to get person to Colorado. Busy morning! Karl

Agree dont buy a plasma cutter for clipping a car. The best tools are cut off wheel, air hammer, spot weld remover bit(small hole saw used to drill out the factory welds) sawzall, I prefer an air saw over sawzall.

All a plasma cutter is for is quick rough cutting. Plus one thing make plenty of measurements before you cut again...Eric

70isfine, I guess there it is a matter of semantics, if you go back to page one of this thread you will see my post with the diagram of the different welds. Butt weld with backing is exactly the same as your diagram. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif Mine is from ICAR which gets their welding info from American welding Society. So they are the same, just different names.

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1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

thankyou to all for the list of needed tools. as far as the current list ( cut off wheel, nibbler, hacksaw, sawzall, spot weld cutter, drill, air hammer and small hole saw) i have all but the nibbler and spot weld cutter. what exactly is a nibbler what does it do and where can i get one. is it absolutly needed because i have the other tools. next as far as aligning them both up what is the fastest and easiest way to achieve this? once again thankyou for the help

TTT Going up??

well guys id love to have an update for you but we got hit by 80 mph windstorm last night wiped out almost my whole city. my car will have to wait couple days. by the way supersport what is TTT.

A nibbler is an air-powered tin-snips...very handy.

about the sleeve method... why not crimp it? I understand that's 1 more tool to buy, but for those of you with shops, I would think you'd have this, and it would speed things up a lot without making it any weaker IMHO

TTT means "to the top", just bringing the topic back to the top of the page for more replies before it falls off the bottom.

Derek69SS,do you mean flange?

I don't think crimping would work,or even a flange.Like on the floorpan,its too molded with ups and downs,if it were flat it would be easy to flange and get it even.

I have to do this same thing but mine is cut across the floorpan from door to door and at the center of the a-pillars.I think this weekend im going to take my doors/fenders back off and take a closer look.

Yes, I have the flanging tool. But I really havn't used it in years, ever since I started using the butt weld with backing process. What I do is cut off the old panel up to about one or two inches from where I plan on welding it. I then lay the new part over the old and cut the line where I want to weld through both layers with a cut off wheel. Now, you have a perfect seam. I then make the "sleeve" out of the piece that I cut off (the new or the old piece, what ever works) and plug weld it in with a few welds just to hold it. Now I lay the new piece in place and weld the seam. The weld needs to go down to the "sleave" while welding into the new and old pieces at the edge. This method provides the perfect 1/16" or so gap for you to butt weld while providing good penitration to the "sleave".
The flange tool just doesn't do as nice of a job. Now, if you can get behind the weld the backing is not the way to go. If I were to weld two pieces of the floor together for instance I would do a simple lap weld. For welding a seam across a floor I feel that if you are not going to use the factory seam you might as well make a "factory seam". If you do a lap weld with about one inch of lap and then plug weld it every inch and a half or so, it would look just like the factory made it. If you were to flange it, unless you were able to flange it an inch, it wouldn't look original.

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1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

martinsr the butt weld process sounds great, and thanks to your explanation i understand how it works. my only delema is how to do that same method with a two halfs of a car??

OK,everyone has given info about the general welding but how about the ones that have actually done this.

Is it hard to get the two bodies aligned? In the a-pillar what kind of splicing metal needs to be used.Should i use some 1/2" bar to go inside the a-pillars?

Anyone have any detailed pics or info?

Thank you

You can have two types of welds for the A pillar. The butt weld with insert or backing, and the butt weld with offset. The offset has no insert, A pillar is welded back together in a staggered fashion or stair up. As for the insert you use an old piece of the pillar, cut it in a few pieces so it fits down in the pillar.

Before you cut again apart you should measure the windshield area and door openings. Get a up-down measurement, side to side and X measurement. Once you have the car sleeved with inserts you can slided them together. Hold them in place with vise grips, sheet metal screws, take measurements and readjust til you achieve your previous dimensions. Make sure everything is tight and held in place, hang your doors and test its fit. Once you get the fit you like all arond you can start welding. Weld from side to side, dont weld on one side then go to the next when all done, skip around place a weld or two on a side then do the same on the other. If you weld one side complete and then move to the other you run the risk of pulling the halves apart...Eric

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1970 chevelle
1970 chevelle SS455 not a typo its a BUICK BABY
1949 and 1972 chevy trucks
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/sevt_chevelles

Eric, you still want to use a backing or "sleave" when doing an offset joint. The offset part is only the style of joint, not the style of weld. The weld would still be a butt, butt with backing or a lap.

http://members.aol.com/buickfam/offsetweld.jpg

Josh, you cut like you would for a regular butt weld. Only you need a gap between the two pieces to weld through to the backing.

supersport396_2000 and Josh,

The trick to doing a slice like this is to make patterns so you cut both cars in the same place. I make patterns out of 3M welding shield paper at work. This paper has a sticky side that is designed to stick to the windows of a car being repaired so welding splatter doesn't ruin the glass. I use it for patterns by laying it on the metal where I want to make a cut and transfer points on to the paper from the metal. These points are then found on the doner car and the paper is put in the exact same place using these transfer points on the doner car. If you do this and have the line drawn on the pattern to cut you can make the same exact cut on both old and new part.
I will try to make up a graffic or find one to show you this.

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1965 Buick Gran Sport Convertible
1965 Buick Skylark H/T
"Fan of most anything that moves human beings"

Hey bud,made any progress yet?

Hey,did you ever get around to putting it together??

Well?

DING DONG

WOW you are persistent aren't you. :D

Well since the time this topic was posted i havnt been doing much to the chevelle,no money,lost interest ect you know how it goes. Now im getting back into it and looking for past posts i still need info on.

graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Yea, I could use some info too. Im looking to splice a 69 ragtop with a 69 hardtop. what a chore that will be.
-joe