are these a good set of heads for a street car? i have flat top pistons, will these heads work? a mechanic told me i might have to run a super unleaded-race fuel mixture. is this true?


thanks
bryan

Yes they are a good old stock head.

Yes they will work with flat-tops. That's how most of them originally came. Should run OK on modern pump premium.

i plan on doing some porting and polishing on them. i have 72cc heads on my 350 right now, and it dyno'd at a little over 400 hp. i'm shootng for 450 hp, so i hope the 64cc double humps "livin" my motor up a little.

Those are what I run. Currently I'm at approximatly 470hp and I drive it every day still using the 1.94/1.5 inch valves. My signature was written when it was 440hp. There an awesome head for 35-36 years old! Put some hardened exhaust seats in, new guides, SS valves, screw in studs and guideplates if your cam is big enough, and give them a slight port job and you'll be happy.:)

Those are what I run. Currently I'm at approximatly 470hp and I drive it every day still using the 1.94/1.5 inch valves. My signature was written when it was 440hp. There an awesome head for 35-36 years old! Put some hardened exhaust seats in, new guides, SS valves, screw in studs and guideplates if your cam is big enough, and give them a slight port job and you'll be happy.:)
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Ok,,, I just gotta ask,, where are you guys getting the idea you have these HP numbers??
400HP 350's with stock GM heads?, 470HP 383's with stock GM heads?
Not trying to burst anyone's bubble but in my opinion, these numbers are just a bit "optimistic" :sad:

At least on an honest dyno they are.
Case in point: GM's ZZ383 crate engine with one of the best production type 23 degree heads the General has, the fast burn 210cc port ones & a pretty fair hyd roller.
GM says 425HP & 460lb ft.
On my dyno this engine was 434HP & 450lb ft
I have dynoed two of these now & they were within about 10HP???
Another "crate engine", the 450HP GM 502
Again, within 10 or 15hp on my dyno.

I guess all dynos are a "little" different though as some LA ones seem to gain about 15% :D


BTW, if you are running 113 MPH in your car & guessing the weight at about 3500lbs gross you need just under 400 flywheel HP under what ever conditions prevailed at the time.
If it's 3300 you need about 370

Again, not pickin on anyone, just trying to keep things in some kind of perspective for folks that do not have the luxury of being able to dyno their engines.

To the original question, it is a good head for a 30+ year old one but I wouldn't spend a lot on them as there are better ones that are pretty inexpensive these days that already have hard seats, screw-in studs etc,,,

i picked these up for $100. and the guy threw in a new set of valves.

Wolfplace, you seem to be very knowledgeble on this stuff. I guess I could only have 400hp. I really could care less how much power I have; a timeslip means way more. I've done enough research on motor's that I have a good idea how fast you can go with these heads and a good port job. He asked how good the heads were and I was telling him what I honestly thought. Regardless of the HP number you can outrun many BBC's and AFR headed small blocks with some old junk camel hump heads. I honestly think with my current combo I could run high 11's @ 115mph on radials with a cam that isnt even 1/2" lift and less than optimal gearing. That's pretty damn good for some old heads IMO.

These heads are awesome. So far, I have been beating lots of them with unbelievable priced set ups.

I am using them on my 1968 Camaro & 1971 El Camino. They are both massaged, ported and polished with the 2.02 valves.

1968 Camaro: 383 stroker with a 12:1 compression, 4.11 detroit locker on 12 bolt making low to mid 11s all motor.
1971 El Camino: 350 1971 original block with Hype dome 12.5:1 compression with a over the counter Isky cams and 2.73 open 12 bolt making low to mid 13s on a doggish take off (3000stall is helping me, though...) with M&H DOT slicks and all motor.

For the Elky, waiting for a good rear end for another 1sec cut or better. Camel Humps, its an awesome heads. I mean offcourse a racing head, with that wallet shredding price too has to be excellent. Thats what is made for anyways..

But I think with a right set up, fine tuning, or should I say right set ups on cams, valve trains, induction, and etc, you can out run some of those crate motors as they are set to last and are built to guarantee be relyable.

Wolfplace, you seem to be very knowledgeble on this stuff. I guess I could only have 400hp. I really could care less how much power I have; a timeslip means way more. I've done enough research on motor's that I have a good idea how fast you can go with these heads and a good port job. He asked how good the heads were and I was telling him what I honestly thought. Regardless of the HP number you can outrun many BBC's and AFR headed small blocks with some old junk camel hump heads. I honestly think with my current combo I could run high 11's @ 115mph on radials with a cam that isnt even 1/2" lift and less than optimal gearing. That's pretty damn good for some old heads IMO.
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I will repeat, I ain't pickin on anyone, just trying to bring some semblance of reality to the HP numbers for those that do not have access to a dyno.
It was you that said you had 470HP & there are a number of people on here who will read that & assume you somehow know this & all I am saying is under most circumstances it ain't gonna happen.

Never said the heads were not good & never said your ride didn't run good ,,, just said not to spend a bunch on them as there are others out there much better.
As for outrunning big blocks & AFR's with the old heads,, what is your point??
I can tell you that if you were to put a better head on your engine you might be very surprised in the power difference.
A 186 head has a port that is about 160-165cc's and an area of about 1.8" as I recall.
An AFR 195 has well,,, 195cc's & a much larger cross-sectional area. About 2.2" from memory.
As you are an ME student I will let you do the math if you care to look up the formulas for minimum cross-section vs engine size & RPM potential.

The stock head is going to run out of area on your engine at somewhere in the 5500 range tops at best.
To compare a 30 year old stock casting to some of the newer well designed ones is in my opinion just a bit ludicrous.

And again, in case you missed it I did not say the 186 was a bad head just a very old design & no where near as efficient as the newer ones are.

And again to Bryan, there is nothing wrong with the 186 heads & $100 with new valves is a hell of a deal if they are in decent shape & the compression increase should help pick up the power but the basic port design between most small block stock heads is really very close so do not expect 50 HP unless there is something wrong with the head you
have,,, ;)

i'll give them a try. i've ran 12.06 in the quarter mile with the 76cc heads. trying to get in the 11's. this is also with 3:73 gears, and no nitrous. the tranny is a turbo 350 with a 3500 stall. the cam has 288 duration with 488 lift. not a big cam, but it works great.

bryan

i'll give them a try. i've ran 12.06 in the quarter mile with the 76cc heads. trying to get in the 11's. this is also with 3:73 gears, and no nitrous. the tranny is a turbo 350 with a 3500 stall. the cam has 288 duration with 488 lift. not a big cam, but it works great.

bryan
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A point + of compression should get you there. Good luck

That 12.06 with a 350 in a 71 Chevelle with stock heads is
excellent :beers:

I'm from Missouri (the show-me state), I'd have to see it, to believe it. I had a what I would call MILD .030 over 454, 10-1cr,stock 049's 2.19/1.88's, .540/.550 lift solid cam,th350 w/3.73's and the best it ran was 11.78 low 12's most of the time. Do you or have you run at MoKan? I'd like to see this, really !!!!

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400HP 350's with stock GM heads?, 470HP 383's with stock GM heads?
Not trying to burst anyone's bubble but in my opinion, these numbers are just a bit "optimistic" :sad:



I know of a 350 that was dynoed at 407hp running pocket ported "fuelie" heads and a solid cam. The machine shop I worked at as a kid built it. It ran high 12`s in a 55` chevy. I`m not sure how well he knew how to drag race a stick shift car.

For $100 they are a great head but as Mike said, they are out dated and almost any aftermarket head would be a better head. Mike has been doing this for a long time and I`m sure he`s dynoed plenty of motors with fuelie`s and aftermarket heads. I`ll bet you anything the fuelie`s don`t even come close to running as good as and AFR head. Hell, my old 041`s were ported and polished by a professional who did head work for a living using a flowbench and they were about 20cfm short of AFR`s smallest street head. You`ll notice some more power due to the compression but if you really want to run stock chevy heads, find some vortecs.

i run at heartland heart dragway in topeka, ks. i'm in the army and leaving for recruiter school in 2 weeks. i'm not sure where i'll be recruiting at, hopefully texas. i'll find the timeslip and post it. as for the heads, i bought them because they were only $100. like i said before, i'll give them a try. my motor was built by a professional IHRA drag racer. he told me that if i was trying to keep my car with muscle car parts, then these heads will do just fine. i'm sending them to him today to get the works done to them.

Hello Guys,

For some reason I recall reading a CarCraft article that flowed these heads. They only flowed slighty better than a set of 882s.

I think by the time you invest money into these castings you could be better off with a set of Vortecs or an aftermarket head.

But it also depends on how much you are paying for your machine work and if you are doing any porting yourself. In that case you might be ahead.

keep in mind that this is a street car. i will be driving only on sunny days. i'll make a run down the strip a couple of times during the summer, but other than that it's sunny weekends only. i had a set of 462 double humps in my 55 chevy and was very happy. i got these heads because they were cheap, and for personal preference.

Please consider the CHEAP, 195 cc intake port ALUMINUM AND CAST-IRON heads Hotrodsusa are selling that somebody said at 10 percent off now for just a bit longer!!

For about $400 (C-I) and $500 (AL) a pair. BARE!!

I know they are NOT as good as AFR's and Brodix, but still, for this kinda money should be a great value for a street motor head!!

pdq67

My friend ran low 12's on a set of 1.94/1.6 461 camel humps that were set up for a 540 lift solid cam.It had a th-350 with a 3k stall and a tunnel ram with 2 450 holleys. And a 12 bolt with 3.73 gears.By the way this was in a street driven 65 impala. All stock interior.I give the thumbs up for the camel humps. The only iron factory head I will run besides the 041's after being ported.If you want real power step up to dart or AFR.

041s ARE double-humps. Some of the casting numbers you see the most are 461 (no bolt holes), 462, 492, 186, 041, 041X, 291 (no bolt holes), 292 (over-the-counter GM race head)

Those used to be the heads we all ran, for years and years, back before CNC casting made possible the whole aftermarket head industry as we know it. Before World or Dart or AFR or Edelbrock or Trick Flow or Pro Topline. Back before there was any such thing as a "street" "aftermarket" head. Or one for any purpose but the most hard-core racing, for that matter.

As has been said, good heads, for their day; among the best. Good for low-mid 400s HP on modern pump gas, given the CR you have to run these days; which will take a typical steel car to mid 12s if the car is set up well. Among the best stock heads of all time until Vortecs. But certainly not "competitive" in a heads-up sense any longer, except for a fun cheep street machine. And they're still great for that.

I run a set of 186's on my 30 over 350 with cheapo flat tops. I have a 480 lift Lunati hyd cam and I have no problem running even unleaded. I usually run the middle grade with absolutly no knocking. I agree that the newer aftermarket heads are better, but that said, I to paid $100 for my heads and spent $130 on clean up and 3 angle job. No Porting. I have this motor in my 67 Elky and run constistant 8.30's in1/8th mile in good air (figure about a 13 flat in 1/4). I can drive it around town all day. I am in the process of starting another motor build, but I built this entire small block, for less money that a set of SB Trick Flow heads cost. Thats even paying $150 for a good core. I got the cheapo $50 machine shop crank and the $10 each flat top pistons.

The way I see it the more Money you got the faster your car can go, which means Donald Trump if he chose to, could have one of the fastest cars in the world. But I like the idea of taking older less expensive stuff and see how fast i can go.

I have outran several cars with lots more monet tied up in the motors, that just makes my day.

I have a set of 461's, ported and polished flowing @210, running mid 11's.

just got back from the machine shop. the heads have already been cut for 2.02's and the porting is done on one head. they will be done by the end of the week so i can put them on next weekend if my new head bolt kit from summit gets here. they were magnafluxed and had no cracks. had to run the head through the shaver once to true them up. can't wait to try them out.

Wow you guys are getting a lot of hps out of the old double humps i did a motor 350 40 over flat tops 63cc heads port matched rpm intake rpm cam roller rockers hooker super comps headers 38 total advance timming 750dp motors in a 78 G car 3spd auto 3.73 posi the best i can get is 305hp at the rear wheels? What gives?

rpm cam There's your answer.

Your torque converter might also be an issue... a stock 350 converter with that cam will make for a pretty soggy leave.

3500 stall the dyno was a rear wheel

to hotrod71chevelle what happened to the "i have a 500+ smallblock" from a previous post. looks like the bs meter is pegged. i have a big block with gm heads and there is no way 186 heads come close. i know cause sitting next to my 70 chevelle is a 70 lt1 stingray with port to the max 186 heads on it. may we sould go on pinks. i can come to kansas for a title race.

whenever you're ready, i can get the track. i've beaten the so called "fastest car in the area". if the 71 won't beat you, i'll unload my 68 camaro. it has a reher morrison big block. it "IS" street legal and runs in the 9's. i'll be back from school in late march, so come on down and bring your title. my 500+ horsepower post, was what the guy that built my motor told me it would do with a few option parts which i've purchased. when i get the heads and other parts on, i'm going to take it to the dyno and see what is getting to the rear wheels. hope to see you in spring.

I`m not trying to start anything but you won`t make 500hp with 186 heads. At least not without a blower or NOS. What are the specs of your motor? If you do have a 9 second Camaro, why waste your time with a tiny smallblock with "fuelie" heads? It just seems strange to me that your asking us if 186 heads are any good, like someone who is new to performance stuff, and then you start arguing with Mike and throw out a name like Reher Morrison. I`m not trying to talk **** because I don`t care what parts you run or how fast your car is. It`s just a observation.

I have personally seen a solid cammed 355 with 461 heads pull 515 HP on a dyno at a local high perf. machine shop. It can be done.

I have personally seen a solid cammed 355 with 461 heads pull 515 HP on a dyno at a local high perf. machine shop. It can be done.

It`s not going to be streetable if your not using a blower or NOS. It would take alot of compression and alot of camshaft to make that much power with a small head like the 186 head. I use to work for a machine shop that built drag race and sprint motors and dynoed them and they never had one with "fuelie" heads that made anything close to that power that would be a pump gas streetable motor. Anytime they wanted 500hp from a 350 they used AFR or Brodix heads.

whenever you're ready, i can get the track. i've beaten the so called "fastest car in the area". if the 71 won't beat you, i'll unload my 68 camaro. it has a reher morrison big block. it "IS" street legal and runs in the 9's. i'll be back from school in late march, so come on down and bring your title. my 500+ horsepower post, was what the guy that built my motor told me it would do with a few option parts which i've purchased. when i get the heads and other parts on, i'm going to take it to the dyno and see what is getting to the rear wheels. hope to see you in spring.

For someone that has a "reher morrison big block in the 9's" and a "professional IHRA drag racer built engine" why are you wasting your time with a $100 set of heads??? Seems like they would be peanuts to you....

I smell something.................

I agree with you and pretty much said the same thing a couple posts back. Still have`nt heard the answer to the question yet.

can you post pics of all this? i have some friends down there and nobody seems to remember you or your 9 sec camaro. are you station at fort riley,
maybe your the base general too. reher morrison big block and your messing with 186 heads, i think the bs meter has over loaded.

186 were installed on full size only, there torqers