My '92 Lumina Euro 3.4 was "totalled" last June. The other driver was cited, and his insurance company accepted liability. They offered a stinkin' $2000 for it. They would give another $300 for "loss of use". Total offer: $2300.

I did some research, offered proof that the vehicle value was at least $3000, and showed thirteen pages of advertisements for similar vehicles priced over $3500. The insurance company chose to ignore me. Make no mistake, I think it's an industry-wide problem: They improve their profits at the vehicle owner's expense by NOT using market-value estimates of the vehicle's value. Most folks are so strapped for cash that they have to jump at whatever's offered, even though they know that it's an unfair settlement.

I just received my small-claims-court judgement this morning. I picked up a check for $3459 this afternoon. Court costs, which are part of the claim, were only $45. No lawyer needed.

So, to recap: Theiving insurance company offers a pittance for older vehicle. By going to court and telling my story, the judge rules in my favor and forces the insurance company to pay an additional 50% more than what the insurance company originally offered.

You CAN get justice when fighting "the establishment", but you will need to do some homework. Overall--Its EASY to prove your case in court when the insurance industry is so crooked.

they look at it this way- how much is a totalled Lumina worth?
about 10 years ago, one of my friends had a $5k loan out on his Dodge Daytona. the car itself was actually maybe worth $3500, but since he had the loan, it was insured for the payoff amount. said so right in the insurance paperwork.
well, the car spontaneously caught fire one night, and all that was left was the stuff made of steel. it looked pretty cool, actually.
his very "progressive" insurance company wanted to give him $1000- and told him they were being generous because a burnt up Daytona isn't worth anything. he was almost meek enough and afraid of conflict to take the offer- but all of his friends made him fight it. he still only got $4k for it, but that was much better than the original offer. but it was far short of what they legally had to give him. but he cashed the check because his leeching girlfriend wanted to go on a shopping spree..

I had an ins company try something like that about 14 yrs ago when my wife and daughter (then an infant) got rearended. Ins guy said that's my best offer, it's as high as I can go, take it or leave it. I let him know what I wanted, he said can't do! I said I'd get back to him just as soon as my wife and daughter had their follow-ups at the Dr's office and left. The next day he called to share great news, he got approval to settle at my figures...

How do you like that? I guess he had a phobia about doctors...

I hate insurance, it is a necessary eveil in our world today. The companies will always try to short change you unless you stand up for yourself.

Another reason for them having to act the way they do is: Far too many people in this country sue one another in the pursuit of unearned profits. It seems more and more folks want a handout instead of working for what they deserve.

The blood sucking "Ambulance Chasers" don't help either. In our local area we have to watch "The Strong Arm" on TV commercials. I hate that lawyers can now advertise on TV. Legalized theft IMO.

only problem I see here is that you are now famous. insurance companies exchange information about those of us (that would be you) who have the nerve to seek settlements, even if the company doesn't pay in the end. The insurance industry takes care of it's own. Try changing companies, and get ready for rate creep. Our insurance went up 40% and no other company will touch us after I simply called in to ask if I was covered several years ago when a storm wiped out the majority of the trees on my lot. Not only was I not covered, never got a dime, never filed an actual claim or had an insurance adjuster or agent on the property; but I'm now rated a risk by the Maryland insurance reporting system. I was told by Erie insurance that they would not even quote me a policy until I was "claim Free" for 5 years.

my daughter-in law works for an insurance company.
last winter the heavy snow toppled over two tall pine trees in our yard.
my wife wanted to call our insurance company to find out if they would pay for the removal of the trees.
daughter-in-law advised us not to call. the tree cleanup wouldn't be covered and just the phone call goes on your record of denying a claim.
david

what you do is file the claim with YOUR insurance, and let them litigate against the other person's company if it is not your fault. If you're not liable, your rates won't go up.
I did this with my '02 SS camaro that got totalled by a redlight running fool. I got a check for $27k from my insurance, vs. the $7k the other person's company was trying to offer me to get my totalled car 'repaired'. You pay insurance every month for a reason, make them deliver on the product you're paying for. I'll never again even speak to another person's insurance agent.

Good advice, Brian. I called the other insurance co. last year after I got cut off and ran into a 4runner on my bike. They were very nasty about the whole thing. Took them two weeks to finally claim full liability. My own agent kept trying, too. She called them, told them how unprofessional they were acting, unreasonable timeframe, etc. I think I made my point when I explained to them "The guy admits he didn't look when pulling into my lane. If I were driving my '79 K/10, lifted 4x4 instead of my bike, your guy would likely not be around. All you'd have to say then is 'What an idiot, obviously didn't look, but now he's dead.' " They gave in the next day. Then, I get my renewal a few months later, premiums are way up. Call them, they tell me I have an accident on my record. :rolleyes: Luckily, I still had the claims adjuster's email, claim number, etc. Got ahold of her, she took care of it. Probably stuck, because of the delays with the other company.

FWIW, 2 years ago, my wife hit a lady that pulled out in front of her when my wife had the green light. $4k damage to the Blazer, but the lady admitted she didn't look. Case was closed before noon that day, body shop had a good estimate, appointment date set, etc. Awesome service there. :thumbsup:

If the police are called to an accident, even if you arent at fault and YOUR ins company doesnt get involved at all it still goes on your record as being involved in an accident.
I've actually has good luck with the "progressive" company. When my daughter hit a deer with her 2000 Mustang they just said to take it my choice of shops and get it fixed, 6 months later she totaled it by rear ending another car. They paid me $1500 more than I paid for the car 1 1/2 years ago.
This summer she was rear ended in the 92 Camaro that I bought to replace the Mustang, the car was totaled and the other guys ins company gave me $4300 and let me keep the car, I only paid $2500 for the Camaro.
Ron

They can't hold it against you as far as your premiums go, if the other party is deemed 100% at fault. Sure, it might be there, but in both my cases, it hasn't caused a rise in rates.

Not sure how thing work in the USA, but here in Canada, the EIP (Evil Insurance Pirates) are a brutal force to contend with if you get the wrong company or adjuster. Event though we have 'no-fault insureance', I fought for a month to get my wife's car fixed - they claimed the vehcile was only worth $3500 and it had only 25,000 miles on it! (Old woman turned left illegally into my wife's car).

Here they trumped up the damage adjustment to ensure a write-off so they could resell the salvage to reduce money out of pocket. I demonstrated with current advertisements the car was worth $6500-7500 so they upped the offer to $4500 "being they were doing me a favour as my trusted insurance company", when I persisted, they got rather short sudddenly and said, "Either accept our offer or start arbitration or litigation" and "by the way, your rental car is cut-off effective immediatley."

In the end, I won and got the car fixed (even after they jacked up the damage estimate after the orignal quote "to make sure there was no hidden damage"). Guys at my office had a pool going to see who would win, me or the EIP. I showed 'em!!!

I had to go through double hockey sticks for my friend about 10 years ago after her car was "totalled" in an accident. They tried to lowball her, and she got me involved. I eventually got her settlement by catching the adjuster in so many lies she had to give me what I wanted to save herself. After they reappraised the car, it was no longer totalled by their formula, and I made them fix it. Once the car was apart at the shop, they found more than double the damage but were so far into it at that point it was cheaper to finish repairing it. ALL STATEd, the total repair cost to the insurance company was $7500 on a car worth $5000. Score one for the little guy. My friend ended up being sued and they paid out another $50,000 ($25,000 for a sore neck - I was there, and the lady she hit was running around in everyone's face at the scene. Obviously not hurt too badly. And her husband got the other $25,000 for "loss of companionship". There's why your rates go up, right there). But due to a glitch in the system, my friend's rates never went up. Score another one for the little guy!

On the other end of the spectrum, my buddy backed into some plasticy import with his F-250 crew cab (didn't see him in any of his mirrors - imagine that). He put a scrape on his trailer hitch, and did $3800 in damage to the guy's car. The claim was paid asap and his rates didn't go up a cent. That's the advantage of a mutual insurance company - no profit motive.

Just to add to the stories...

Several years back, I was driving a 72 Chev Kingswood Estate Wagon. One of those 100' long models...

I was going about 45 in a 45 zone on a 6 lane road, wet but clear weather. Approaching an intersection, the guy in the #3 lane about 10 car-lengths in front of me had his right blinker on and his brake lights lit when he suddenly slowed to a crawl and came into my #1 lane where I had nowhere to go. Could have swerved right, but would have taken out an old man in a BUick on my RR 1/4. Could have swerved left but would have drilled another car sitting in the left turn lane. In an instant I just kept going straight, locked up the brakes in the 6000lb car and nailed the guy in his little Toyota p/u and sent him spinning thru the intersection. The impact hit the wago dead center on my radiator to the corner of his bed. Pushed the core support and the radiator against the block and wiped out the hood and front end bodywork. Because of the age of the car, it wound up being a total at around $2500.

Days later, he claimed I had simply rear ended him and he was completely not at fault. What I never told him nor his insurance company at the onset was the old guy in the Buick had come back around after the crash and given me his name and number as a witness, said he'd seen the whole thing and couldn't believe that guy did what he did.

His insurance kept dickering around telling me they would accept 75% of the blame, then 80 then 90 and finally they held at 95%. Wouldn't budge, said I was speeding or following too closely or driving an unsafe vehicle... they had a whole series of excuses. Every time I countered their reasoning, they produced another.

This went on for about a week until I finally asked them what the witness had said.

...silence

"...witness? WHAT witness...?" the guy asks me.

"The one that saw the whole thing from one lane over..." I told him.



I had a $2500 check and a 100% at fault admission from his insurance a day later and my rates never went up.

(Until my wife rear-ended a guy in a stalled truck at another interesection a couple years ago...! )

I had an ins company try something like that about 14 yrs ago when my wife and daughter (then an infant) got rearended. Ins guy said that's my best offer, it's as high as I can go, take it or leave it. I let him know what I wanted, he said can't do! I said I'd get back to him just as soon as my wife and daughter had their follow-ups at the Dr's office and left. The next day he called to share great news, he got approval to settle at my figures...

How do you like that? I guess he had a phobia about doctors...
I hate when you have to lower your self to there level.. I to Had an accident with A 90 ford F150 truck . It was three months old and 1,800mion it. A Kid ran a stop sign and I T boned him at 55 mph.. Luckily he was not wearing a set belt, because my R/F wheel came to rest on the drivers seat of his Jetta.

The Insurance Co Nation Wide totaled my truck and offered me X dollars. I said no it's new I want a replacement and that this Dealer has one just like it all the options and same color. They came back with a New truck offer at another dealer but it was a striped down model not a LXT Lariat two tone paint and noe of the bells and whistles.
They said " That's our finial offer " Welllllllll. After a trip to the Orthopedic Dr. and a phone call from the Dr's billing staff as to what forms they needed and Me asking to whom I submitted them too, for Lost Time and Medical reimbursement.

Three days later a call from the adjuster to set up an appointment to meet at the ford dealer to get my New
TRUCK at Ford Dealer

Plus,,,, I still Had the rest of the week the Dr. Gave me off to break it in :)

The necessary evil... how true...

My family has been with the same insurance company for years... They usually have treated us pretty good, I'd give them an "AAA" rating for service...

One problem however, was when my sister wrecked my mom's staition wagon (going about 30 MPH on a dirt access road, and the front frame crossmember caught a sewer manhole that was sticking up... bent the frame, but no body damage...

after inspection, they wanted to total the car (1985 Ford Crown Vic wagon, fully loaded, about 9-10 years old) because the frame was bent too badly, and "splicing" in a crossmember was dangerous... They said the car was only worth $2000. Car still drove, but was "pidgeon-toed"...

I gathered all the info I could, newspaper ads, etc to show the same cars typically sold for more... On top of that, I produced receipts for a new engine (no labor, just parts), brakes, shocks, tires, etc (I had just rebuilt the engine) and figured the value was about $6K... Instead of paying, they fixed the car by splicing in another crossmember or otherwise straightening the frame...


When I first got married, AAA was too expensive (because my wife had ONLY been driving for 6+ years!), so we went with that Progresive company...

Things were okay for several years, until one day I received a Mailer from AAA insurance (I am a member and have my homeowners through them anyway). I call, and now because of some rule changes and my wife's increased driver history, they were able to easily beat the premiums of that Prog...

I switched... I called Prog and told them I wanted to cancel my policy, and had to explain why... The "Customer Service" person (manager?) said they would match the rate, to keep me as a customer...

I informed her that if they were willing to match the rate, then they had been overcharging me all along. Silence on the other end...



Had AAA go after several other insurance companies and uninsured motorists for me over the years, and they always did great...

My son was looking forward to turning 18 as the insurance agent had told him that the insurance premium goes down at 18, 21, and 25. (We make him pay half). Well today the bill for the first 6-month premium after his 18th birthday came. It went down from $549 to $529. Wow, a whole $40/year!

How do you go about finding the value of a totaled vehicle?

On KBB.com they have private party value, trade in value and new vehicle pricing, which one would it be?

Probably just have to go off of what the useable parts are going for on a wreck. As far as insurance payouts go, they compare the vehicle to similar ones in age, mileage, to figure out what it could have sold for before it was wrecked.

It's been my experience that insurance companies won't do the research, they are more likely to take the KBB wholesale (low) and add or reduce for your condition before the wreck, and probably can't tell that from what's left. Your job as a consumer is to convince them to pay more using such things as receipts for new tires, show "before" photos, and of course print off listings from similar cars for sale at higher amounts. It's very much like buying a car. If you walk in and pay the asking price they'll be happy to take it, but if you take the time to dicker you may get it for less. They hope to be able to pay out the least possible amount, and hope that most people will take it.

My son was looking forward to turning 18 as the insurance agent had told him that the insurance premium goes down at 18, 21, and 25. (We make him pay half). Well today the bill for the first 6-month premium after his 18th birthday came. It went down from $549 to $529. Wow, a whole $40/year!

Only $529 for an 18 year old??? Jesus Damn! I pay $840 for a freekin MINIVAN and I'm 39 with no tickets or accidents since 1988! (of course, look where I live - car theft capital of the mid-south)

Very glad you won!!! Keep us posted at renewal time to see if they try to come back at you!! I agree the whole @#%$$ thing is a scam!! I've got no tickets or accidents on my records for over 3 years, same for my wife, and my rates are out of this world, probablly due to having a poor credit rating, which is the subject for a different rant!

Good work fighting them!

It's been my experience that insurance companies won't do the research, they are more likely to take the KBB wholesale (low) and add or reduce for your condition before the wreck, and probably can't tell that from what's left.

Which one of the available options would be wholesale? the trade in value, new value or private seller?

About 6 weeks ago wife was in an acident that totaled her '02 Trailblazer w/ 35K miles. I looked up the truck in NADA and talked to buddy at Carmax, both gave same price on retail. Insurance Co. had no problem cutting a check for the "replacement value" (paid off the truck and gave us a nice down payment on an '06).

About 7 or 8 years ago my teenage dauhgter had one our 71 4 doors out running around one evening. She called to say that the car had stalled out on her in town. I told her that I was on my way and make sure the flashers were on. She said okay and that she was also sitting under a streetlight (just starting to get dark). While she waiting for me a local kid she knew, who had his dad's brand new Silverado out for a spin, pulled up to a stop sign across the street and to her left.
She said she knew what a smartass he was and when he saw her sitting there. he pulled out from the stop sign making a left turn and floored it. He smacked the left rear quarter of the Chevelle, just a dent. oversteered, and went off of the left side of the road. I think it was 4-5 grand in damage.
The next week his dad's insurance company called ME, and wanted ME to pay for the damage to the truck. They said that according to the son he veered around my daughter's car to avoid her and therefore the accident was our fault!!!
They wrote me letters and called a few times. I told them that we would all have to go court to settle it, never heard another word about it.

Which one of the available options would be wholesale? the trade in value, new value or private seller?

Wholesale would most likely be "Trade-in" value (or close)...

"New" would only be for new cars, once you drive it off the lot its no longer "new"...

Private party would be what an individual would sell to another individual for, probably pretty close to buying "used"/retail from a dealer.

The "Trade-in" is less than Private Party/retail so the dealer can repair/recondition/replace safety items/ pay the salesman's commision and make a profit... I'd never use Trade-in value for insurance company stuff... To protect yourself, always look at what local cars are selling for (asking) in the local paper, on-line, etc and also look at Kelly Blue Book and NADA, and I'd base my value off the highest of those, AND THEN add anything additional (new tires, stereo, etc...)...

Remeber, the insurance company is NOT in business to insure you for a loss, they are in business to make money...

Only $529 for an 18 year old??? Jesus Damn! I pay $840 for a freekin MINIVAN and I'm 39 with no tickets or accidents since 1988! (of course, look where I live - car theft capital of the mid-south)
It does vary by state and even city, my oldest has her own and hers went up when she moved from our house in the burbs to Seattle. Besides the greater risk of theft there's the additional traffic. By the way, my son's $529/6 months is just for the 4th car on which he's the principal driver, his cost includes accident/violation free discount, good student discount, multi-car discount, and multi-line discount (strange but you can add a small term life policy and even with that premium save on the car insurance with the multi-line discount). With the 4 cars all together we're paying them over $3,000 a year, and that's before homeowners, earthquake, life, and business insurance that we also have with them. I've compared other companies and there are some better prices but the discounts we're getting keep this the best deal.