Just bought a 1969 Chevelle SS, however starting to question if it is the real deal. Have all the numbers, any thoughts are where to start

Welcome to Team Chevelle Harry!


Check out this link and come back wiht any questions.

http://www.chevelles.com/shop/ss_ident.html

Thanks, so it is really hard to tell. I ran the VIN at a couple of websites, one i(www.chevelle.ca/index.cfm) indicates that the VIN had to start with 13427,13437,13537, 136672 to be an SS in 1969. Mine is 136379. At a Team Chevelle Link, it indicated that mine VIN was Chev, Malibu, SS 2 Dr cpe. The cars has a 396/350 2 bolt engine with a JC suffix, which I believe to indicate that this engine was made for Chevelle. A local oil change resulted in 2 qt overfill. Blew out seal,took to shop, concerns began. It appears that car was originally 3 speed on tree, was modified to 4 speed. There are spacers in front springs. Sway bars are missing. Paint is very good, some bond, vynl top good shape, interrior great. AC car, no compressor.

I purchsed the Chevelle Decoder and am waiting for dwnload to check out the car. Any other sites or thoughts?

do you have a 3/8 fuel line. that is a big sign if it is a SS.

not sure, will check in morning at shop.

power brakes? they were stanard equipment with the 69 SS

Power disc brakes, 3/8 fuel line, boxed lower trailing arms just to name a few things to look for.

The chevelle.ca site is not totally on the money with what they have they going, this is a FAR better site.
Without a buildsheet it is tough to prove. A matching numbers (VIN) engine is the indicator, but restamped blocks happen nowadays. Look for:
power front disk brakes (special metering valve mounted on booster near master cylinder)
3/8 fuel line
bolted steering rag joint

The question that comes to my mind is the thought that "the car probably had a three on the tree". The standard transmission on the 69 SS was a Heavy Duty Three Speed. Although I am not in a position to confirm this, I would imagine this HD 3 speed was a floor shift only setup. Can't say I've ever come across, or read about, a 69 SS with the column shift three speed. I am certainly not closed minded on this and am open to further input.

Also look for stainless trim rings around the parking lights and evidence of patched trim mounting holes along the entire lower body from front to rear. The most common model, Malibu, came with the lower body trim. You can remove door panels to check doors and the vents in the door jambs to check quarter panels for this. Pretty sure the HD 3 speed in SS's had a floor mounted shifter.

Just so we understand you correctly, was it a real "3 on the tree" manual transmission, or was it an automatic on the column car ??

Like I said, just so we understand what you mean for sure. If it just shows signs of a column shift, it might have been an auto.

I'm sure Don, Von, and myself as well as some of the other long time Chevellers can confirm, allot of the younger guys have never even heard of a real "3 on the tree", that's what I'm getting at. :)

Power disc brakes, 3/8 fuel line, boxed lower trailing arms just to name a few things to look for.

Boxed lower trailing arms are not an indication of an SS in 1969.
Many 69's came without boxed arms or rear sway bar as they were optional on an SS in 1969.

The VIN 136379 does not necessarily indicate an SS or NOT
Some other web sites have wrong information.

The back-up lights are attached to the steering colum, so to turn them off, you have to turn the colum. They were disconnected

Per the '69 Features and Specs Manual, the "Special 3 Speed Manual Transmission", RPO MC1, was available as an option with ANY engine and std with the SS396 option with different ratios. Per the specs manual this trans only came with a floor shifter, no matter what engine or model. The std 3 speed manual trans, which was only available with the 2-6 cyls and 307 V8, only came with a column shifter. As Tom said the SS396 with auto trans came with a column shifter unless also equipped with the bucket seat AND console options.

Had a local "chevelle" brother take a look today, He believes the car came standard with current 4 speed Muncie, however, at one point someone converted car to automatic and then went back to 4 speed. His words "anything" is possible! I did verify power front disk brakes (special metering valve mounted on booster near master cylinder)
3/8 fuel line bolted steering rag joi, the more I dig and get advice from my TC friends, feeling better about purchase.............

I work in Farmington Hills, Mi 12 1/2 and Haggerty. If your not to far I could take a look. I'm not an expert but do know a few things about 69 's.

A picture is worth a thousand words! Post some and that will help some of the experts see what you have. Not to burst your bubble, but some people have gone to great extent to clone an SS. With out the build sheet and other accompying paperwork it's nearly impossible to verify a 69 or later SS's originality. There are many beautiful cars out there that aren't original SS's. I can't verify that my car is an original SS because I couldn't find a build sheet, although I'm pretty sure it is. When I bought the car in 1985 it still had the factory lemans blue paint. It also had the SS parking lights, hood, power disc brakes,SS emblems on the exterior where they belong, and the interior SS emblems, guage package,and it had the hole for the four speed shifter and pedals. I did not have the seats or carpet, as they were removed for racing purposes. Also the engine, and trans were long gone...boy do I wish I had them. Supposedly the car was raced in the Philly area by the original owner from 72-82 then the motor blew up, who knows? Then it changed hands a couple of times before I bought it. Any way,the car was in such good shape that I have kept it , enjoyed it, restified it, loved driving it and now it's like part of the family after twenty years. We all like number matching originals or restored cars, or wished we had one....but more than anything we just enjoy them. I think that's what we are all about anyway...THE CHEVELLE....number matching or not. Check under the seats, under the carpet, behind door panels or even above the gas tank for the build sheet....you never know it might still be there., Enjoy :beers:

Thanks Ray, I may take you up on that I am very close. Will circle back with you.

Mike W. I hear you. I just didn't want to the the one with the mose expensive non SS in town! Ha.

thanks,

Harry, it looks like you bought your chevelle and found out about this site after the fact. Well, you're in a situation others have come up against after finding this site. Anytime you raise the question is it real or not, you just entered the point of no return, the experts, and believe me they are experts who will comment and guide you. You're in a situation where you think you might have made a bad move. Theres matching number, clones, drivers, every hodge podge of a car is on here. You didn't make a bad move, you made a good move, there is a lot of people that have to have all the facts before they buy anything, then theres guys like you that step right up and say lets do it. You bought that car because you wanted it, you're fortunate to be able to afford it, theres a lot of people out there that can't, so all you need to do is enjoy it, don't even look back. You're also fortunate to find this site, you will probablty need these experts on here down the road, even though right now you might be thinking maybe a little differently.
You and I and a lot of others are in here with guys that have been living with chevelles for a long time, after you spend a few months on here you will look at what you did a little different then you do now, this is a free education provided by these experts, just don't feel a little overwhelmed as I used to.

I hope I said all this the right way, good luck

Rob

Thanks Rob. I am already overwhelmed by the support this site and its respective members have provided! Sunny day tomorrow, I think the sound of that engine will overcome the fears of the night.

thanks again.
H

Harry,
Just a couple more things. You mentioned that the block was stamped JC which would be correct for a Chevelle 350HP 396 with manual trans. You might want to check the vin stamped on the block next to the JC and see if it matches the VIN on the dash. Also if it was originally a 350 hp 396 there should be a 1/4 return fuel line running along with the 3/8 fuel line and the gas tank sending unit should have attachments for both. All the clips should be two line clips.
Backup light switch would be on the column for a manual on the floor. There should be a linkage that turns the column when placed in reverse. This will activate the reverse lights and also control your reverse lockout when you shut off the ingintion switch.
If you take out the carpet, it's pretty easy to tell if the floor shift hump is original to the car or an add on. This won't tell you anything about it being an SS but it will tell you if it's an original manual on the floor.
You can also check the radiator support and see if it was originally for a big block car. The openning in the support will be larger than the support openning for a mouse motor. I've seen guys change the radiator and shroud but not the support.

Trooper

Thanks Trooper will continue to investigate.
Harry

I'm no expert by any means but I've been doing this a while. I'm on my 3rd Chevelle, Built a blown 32 Duece Coupe Hiboy, several pre-1948 Harleys and Indians, and have been right down to the level of ridiculousness on correct head marked bolts and factory correct overspray on all of them.
(Except the Duece) :)

My question to you is, if it's not a matching numbers drive train car, (I'm asuming it isn't) does it really matter if it was an original SS?

Will it increase it's value considering the numbers don't match?

Does it make it more desirable or more respectable?

In my opinion what matters are cosmetic details and condition and that's all your paying for if your not buying a documented high dollor matching thoroughbred.

You take a top notch Super Chevy winner and watch the judges when they go through the car.

Do they want to see build sheets or documemtation? NO.

Do they check block or tranny numbers? NO

What they look for are factory correct details and cosmetic correctness and condition/cleanliness. You take all of these details that are being mentioned here and if you find something incorrect, change it. make the car the most correct and nice 69SS you can and enjoy the process while you do it. Thats the fun part of this hobby.

I currently have a 70SS 454 I'm finishing that probably started life as a Gold 307 bench open rearended automatic.

Do I care? NO.

Because when I'm done this spring nobody, including a Super Chevy judging group crawling all over my car on there hands and knees will be able to tell otherwise.

If your like me and can't afford an LS6 convertible, then buy or build the nicest car you can afford and enjoy the hobby!

Enjoy your 69SS

Some additional, potentially more usefull information as apposed to a ranting opinion :)

You mentioned a JC code on your vinplate.

You may not have mentioned the VIN number on the VIN plate because you didn't see it.

Your VIN plate may have read like this. T0414JC

You may not have seen any other numbers on the pad because with some 69 Cars, the VIN was stamped on the oil filter boss (cast area above the oil filter next to the bellhousing.) and not on the VIN pad.

If your VIN is not on the motors VIN plate. Check this area.

If your VIN is stamped on the oil filter boss you have a numbers matching 396 and therefore a documented SS car as no 396's were offered in non SS cars in 69.

Wouldn't that be nice.

You'd be one of those thoroughbred owners I was talking about. :)

If the numbers don't match, refer to above post :)

Here's my two cents worth. With out the build sheet and other accompying paperwork you have lost out. It's nearly impossible to verify a 69 or later SS's originality. 1968 was the last year it was it's own model. I own a 1968 SS396 buy the numbers it's real. But even the tags can be changed from car to car. So really if you didn't buy it new from the dealer in 1969 you'll never know!!! Like the others I have seen lots of clones being passed off as real SS < shame on them. Yea everyone goes gaga over a SS. Build a great car and call it what it is!! BE REAL!!! I like a great Looking Malibu as much as an SS Chevelle as much as a Boss 302 Muatang. Did you know an SS. in '64,'65,'66 could have 6 cylinder engines. I am a member of a local Chevrolet Car Club here in S.C. We hold several show a year. When questioned about Judgeing my first statement is this is not a points meet. We can not be experts on every car out there. We judge on craftsmanship, how clean it's, and detail work. A car at our shows can loose first place over worn sill plates, differnet hose clamps on the motor, if it gets down to that. What did you buy it for? If it was to impress your buddies and show off, then you made a big mistake! If you got the car because it was what you wanted then quit stressing over it being correct. ENJOY IT !! Work on your ride, and enjoy it for what it is! A great part of AMERICAN automotive history!!

[QUOTE=barryt]Here's my two cents worth. With out the build sheet and other accompying paperwork you have lost out. It's nearly impossible to verify a 69 or later SS's originality. 1968 was the last year it was it's own model. QUOTE]

Don't forget, a numbers matching 69 396 confirms SS originality because no 396's were offered in non SS cars in 69.

hi,
you've got some good info here, but there is no way to prove or disprove your car. even build sheets are available now, that appear aged and all. and over the last 36 years, anything could have happened. i wouldn't worry too much unless you spent a lot of dough. if i bought a '69, i wouldn't pay more than 'clone' price for any of them. can anyone tell me why a '68 is not worth more than a '69 since you can prove the car by it's VIN??? i have a real '68 SS conv 4 speed, matching, etc... and i have way more in it than it's worth. i went out of my way to only look at '68's because i didn't want to dump big $ into a car and then have to explain to someone when i do sell that i can't prove it's really what i'm saying it is.

True.

Vin tags, rivets and cowl tags are replacable. Even 68's.

Blocks can be undetectibly restamped with the correct font and broachmarks.

NOS protectoplates can be found and stamped

Build sheets can be forged.



But if a Malibu is flawlessly changed to an SS so that everybody including the experts thinks it's an SS.......

Is it really an SS? Isn't reality based on perseption?

If it looks, tastes and smells like an apple, is it an apple?

OK, I'm taking this too far. :)

interesting analysis '69396ss. true on the VIN plate/ cowl tag swap. i have a friend who did that to a '69 GTO. did you know that the first 5 digits of the VIN are also stamped on the firewall? most people don't. it's under the heater box, middle, bottom. but to get at it, you have to pull the inner fender off, so you aren't likely to do that before you buy a car. i would wager that every year at barrett jackson's their are a half dozen VIN swaps that go through there, completely undetected. i was almost afraid to look on my car when i had it disassemled. when i did it was like 'whew', that's a relief. but really, i think this is all psychological. people like the idea that the car was something special, not run of the mill. their peception of their car could change instantly if they thought they had a real big block 4 speed car found their car used to be a 307/PG malibu even though the car is the same. it's really kinda silly isn't it? still, there's just some mystic to the authentic, geniune article. i guess i'm like everyone else.

Trooper, any idea on a diagram on that linkage for back-up light. It is missing, not sure how it connects? Novice you know. Harry

So Harry,

Did you check the VIN on the block?

Power disc brakes, 3/8 fuel line, boxed lower trailing arms just to name a few things to look for.

Not entirely true.
It is true that in order to be a real SS your car would have to be equipped with the 3/8" fuel line and front disc brakes, BUT.........it could have also started out life as a Malibu with these items as well.

My 1969 Malibu has 3/8" fuel line, disc brakes.

The boxed rear lower control arms were not standard SS equipment for 1969. RPO F41 was only ordered on 722 cars. Very rare.

N~

no haven't been able to check VIN on block yet, out of twn on business trip, but will when get back this weekend. thanks

did you know that the first 5 digits of the VIN are also stamped on the firewall? most people don't. it's under the heater box, middle, bottom. but to get at it, you have to pull the inner fender off, so you aren't likely to do that before you buy a car.

Its the last six digits, including the assembly plant code. :thumbsup: On my '68 they were in the center of where the AC box was, stamped upside down! I have a '69 SS (Monaco Orange) parts car and it is stamped clear over by the where the heater blower is, right side up, much larger font.

On my 70 you have to pull the blower motor to see the numbers.

So Harry,

Did you check the VIN on the block?


Yep and its a match! Now with engine compression issue, will probably pull and hold on to and put crate engine thanks for help

So Harry,

Numbers match at the VIN pad or at the oil filter boss?

Or both?

Oil filter boss is what I was able to check yesterday.