Hello all - i feel grateful to have found this forum as i am looking at buying a 1964 Chevelle Malibu SS and need some advice - apologies in advance is this is not the best forum to place this thread.

1. BACKGROUND.

- i have never owned and never restored an old car; my mechanical experience to date encompasses oil changes years ago when on a student budget.

- desire is to have (i) a "solid driver" that can be used as a way to give shuttling the kids around added value; (ii) little by little restore the car (mostly back to original, perhaps with a little customization for safety (e.g., front disc brake/dual master cylinders) and performance (e.g., boring out a bit, easing intake and exhaust flows); and (iii) in the process, learn as much as i can and enjoy doing as much of this as i can as a way of developing this into a hobby.

- out of the box, $ and time will be tight (sound familiar?) in the sense that i would prefer to invest low, provided i get a solid driving platform, and fix non-essentials (that cracked dashboard...the patch that should now gow over the section of rear quarter panel i just cut out, sealed and primed, etc.)

- MOST IMPORTANT...i do not, out of ignorance, want to inadvertently buy a black hole that sucks $ or more gravely, has a fatal flaw that could have and should have been detected such that the message is WALK AWAY!!!!


2. THE CAR.

- 1964 Chevelle SS

* is it a real SS - i don't know; it is the original family that owned the car; there is SS badging scattered around; it has 2 bucket seats upfront and i believe a floor shifter (automatic); as posted in the TAG TEAM forum, i could not locate a vin, but i did locate what i call a "data plate" (don't know if that is the correct term) on the inside of the firewall - right opposite the stearing wheel) that contains the following:

Style = 64-5837
AT 000067
Paint Code = 948
Trim = 714
ACC W2MPSR 3C

* from what i could discern from other parts of this webiste, the 64-5837 means it is a 1964 (the "64") chevelle ss v8 (the "58") 2 door hard top (the "37") - this plate is not riveted but more like glued or tacked on at a single point on each side)

* is this enough to conclude this is a real SS? if not, what else can do that? as per the post in the Tag Team forum, is there a VIN elsewhere? Or some other identifier?

- Condition

* the car starts and runs (so I am told, I have seen it, but have not driven it and the day i saw it, the starter motor was out being replaced -- for purposes of this exercise let's assume it starts and runs)

* the body has been repainted from its original "cobalt blue" (according to owner to a red; there is no surface rust on hood, roof trunk, except for the piece between the windshield and the wipers (sorry for not knowing the technical term)

* but there is rust in the rear quarters - and owner says right side driver floor pan has a hole rusted through - one can assume trunk pan will be similar

* the radio was pulled out as it "drained the battery", but is sitting in the back seat;

* there is a black switch of some sort that was pulled out from behind the brake pedal as the "brake lights stayed on"

* headlights work; tail lights work; turn signals work;

* bumpers there and not too dented, although chrome is clearly weathered and a bit pitted;

* the windshield wiper motor engaged, but was not strong enough to push the wipers (bear in mind this was all off of the battery as the car was not started)

* some dents and dings

* the frame rails show surface rust - unclear how far in the rust goes - also unclear if the car has ever been in an accident (owner says "no" for what that is worth) or if the frame is damaged or bent in some way

* engine is there (and again, we have to assume the car runs, which means that it turns over and the transmission engages) - the original carb is missing (as it has a small square box carb with a really teeny air filter sitting on top of it -- what is that), but is has this alternate carb

^ how can i tell more about the motor? where should i look for various castings to tell me if i have the original intake, exhaust manifolds, blocks, etc.? what should these castings say or match to?

* obviously, without having driven the car yet (which i will), i cannot tell much more about the motor or transmission - when it is running, things i will look for is how quickly it starts; what color the exhaust is; what leaks; how firmly the car engages in Drive...in Reverse; how straight it drives; does it pull when braking;

* has tires and wheels - no clue if they are original;

* don't believe any of the systems have been upgraged - the generator (or is it an alternator) sits up in the front left corner and is run by a rubber belt with "teeth" on the inside) there is one other belt, assume this goes between crank shaft and camshaft

* according to owner, "everything is there" and "it is all original"; having said that, a new muffler and exhaust (which is now dual...was it dual originally?) was put on in 1999; a new master brake cylinder was put on last year; a new starter motor now; and the carb has a sticker on it saying remanufactured in 1999

- PRICE: $2200

3. THE QUESTIONS

- i know i have already asked a bunch of questions, but here are some more:

- MOST IMPORTANT: what do i need to find out/have checked, to see if the car has some fatal flaw that should tell me WALK AWAY - the only thing that comes to my mind is the frame, as I suspect everything else can be dealt with;

* are there known problems areas with this model? this year?

* are there certain parts that are not reproduced for this model/year? if so, what are they and what do i need to look for in the originals to know if salvageable.

4. SUMMARY

- obviously, i know the car is priced at the bottom and with that i can expect to have to totally restore the car...my hope, though is that the car is solid enough to drive such that i don't have to sink thousands in up front just to get it going (e.g., tranny rebuild; engine rebuild; frame damage; lack of integrity in body, frame or some other structural feature; brakes; other?

- certainly all the rubber is gone and needs to be replace (weatherstripping; assume certain seals and gaskets; bushings; suspension pieces);

- again, i am happy to do this work and assume (PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG) that the popularity of this model will allow me to get most (i know you never get all) of this investment back out if i were to sell it one day.

- bottom line - if you were thinking of buying this car, what due diligence would you do before dropping the money?????


Thanks for your time in reading this and thanks in advance for any advice!!!!

Edl, This is probably a project that has overwhelmed the seller. You must always weigh buying a project vs buying a completed car. There are mechanical costs and there are cosmetic costs and there is the time element necessary to complete project. You say time and money will be tight ... You seem to have taken a good inventory of the state of the car. I would not expect, nor feel comfortable that I would be instantly driving this car and sort of fixing it as I go. You want the car operational and safe... To get out of the box I would expect (1) Major Tune-UP (2) 4 wheel brake job ... minimally clean, adjust and flush (3) Tires ??? (4) shocks ..probably ... (5) minimally inspect suspension and steering components (6) Electrical, esepecially if you see hack-up harnesses ..under hood and under dash ... (7) appearance and condition of radiator and coolant tell alot ...(8) Also condition and appearance of oil and tranny fluid ... (9) You need to hear the car run ..driving is a big plus ...Do all forward and reverse gears engage?? Does it shift ??? (10) Minimally inspect exhaust...WIth winter coming and windows rolled up, leaks into the car can be dangerous, especially for smaller kids ... This is not a complete list, but just to give you an idea of some primary considerations just to get you road safe ... AND, certainly its costs more to pay someone to do the work for you than to do the work yourself. ..YOu can easily spend several hundred dollars on the basic mechanics ... this is assuming your engine and tranny are good ...

As far as body work goes, expect to spend several thusand if you going to restore the car cosmetically. A lot of preparation has to be done before ever painting the car and such work is very labor intensive. I doubt that you would want a maaco quickie here ...plus you can paint rust ...

It is hard to say what is a good buy because you have to assess your goals vs your funds vs your mechaincal abilities vs your patience or lack of. You are right that this appears to be a car/project that should appreciate in value. But, it has to have value to you now and you obviously want it to be driveable ASAP ..

If you have a digital camera, maybe posting some pics will help guys respond to specific issues with the car. Make no mistake ...This is a project ...

SDTSDT, thanks for the thoughtful surprise...I would agree with you 100% in wanting the car operational and safe as the #2 and #1 objectives - also agree it would be a project - items 1-10 plus body work are within my expectation of what would need to be done - the real question is what would be "deal killer" - something so flawed that the message should be "WALK AWAY; CANNOT BE BROUGHT BACK TO LIFE" - the only thing I can imagine would be something to do with the frame (rust through (although i know you can patch); bent frame) -- WHAT ELSE???

All, as SDTSDT says, let's assume this is a complete project car (but lets at least say solid project car and not complete basket case) - is the $2200 being asked a fair price? I kind of felt that was a good price. Let's say it was a complete parts car...what would the price be? (I realize this involves some speculation...)

EDL,

Here's a quick story for you to chew on. I paid $1,500 for a 1963 Ranchero about 1996 that sounds much like the same condition as the EC you are looking at. I was trying to do everything myself to save money and have fun. After all new brakes, springs, shocks, suspension, engine swap, clutch, lots of bodywork, wiring, it was ready for paint and interor. That took close to five years and I was spending less and less time on it due to work, so I sold it for $1,400 in much better shape than I'd bought it, lost $1,000 plus at least another $1,000 that I spent on new parts. The El Camino I now have was for sale at $12,999 and I got it for $7,500, have so far spent another $2,000 + on it but all the time I've had it I've been driving and enjoying it.

Check out http://www.collectorcartraderonline.com/
and www.craigslist.com maybe a few others and see what else is available in your price range. Any time you have rust unless you are a pretty decent at body work it's going to cost plenty to repair, skillful welding is a must.

Wow. Judging simply by your description, I'd agree with the assessments and advice already given. This doesn't appear to be anything near a "solid driver," and it's going to take a serious effort and a significant investment just to make it that. I can't put a educated price on what you're describing; $2200 may be ballpark--much depends on what's really there and what's not-- and just how bad the rust is. You're situation as described seems to say that you may not currently have the time, experience, and funds necessary to tackle this type of project. Do what your gut says, but don't hesitate to walk away. This isn't the last '64 on earth, but it might be your last involvement in a great pastime if you get burned and discouraged. Good luck.
.....Doug

I'd agree with the advice from the others. Unless you have the time, patience, money, knowledge and experience to put into restoring this car (and it sounds like it needs one), I think you might be better off finding something that's less of a project. The price may be fair and may reflect all the work that will be needed to be done, can't really say without seeing the car, but you may be overwhelmed. You may find it more enjoyable in the long run to get something more complete and driveable to start with.

BTW, the VIN on a 64 should be located on the front pillar of the driver door. You should find a stamped plate riveted in place. Make sure the VIN matches the title. No VIN - walk away.

As you can see, people want to be supportive, but we also want to caution you. Your limited mechanical experience and your implied limited funds are major considerations here. It takes time and hands-on to really learn and understand how things work. And it takes money to fix one up. If you pay someone else to do it, it still takes time and it takes even more money. Most of us probably don't do body work, but we can handle mechanical and electrical things, so that saves us car... Buy a car as close to what you want as you can possibly afford ... A car such as the one you describes will require a major commitment on your part. More Car + Less Project is usually a lot cheaper than Less Car + More Project ... And More Car is always More enjoyable in the beginning because we all want to ride ... immediately

Fixing rust, repainting etc usually requires a lot of work, and more or less extensive disassembly, so it might take a while if you don't know exactly how to tackle it. And in my experience, the more you dig, the more you'll find, so if you leave it to a pro you might end up with that "black hole" we all want to avoid. On the other hand, if you can find a car that doesn't need any bodywork (good luck...), most other things can be done with a minimum of down time, basically by just swapping parts.

In my opinion and based on what you're saying about your funds and experience, I would not buy the car you're describing. An SS would sure be sweet, but for a beginner I would rather look at something like a cheap, plain Malibu that 1: has a solid body and 2: is as complete as possible. The rest doesn't matter much, the most important thing is that it's complete so you can see how everything is supposed to go together. I think most of us have played the "find the correct bracket" game, and it's nothing you really want to do when you're working on your first project. To me it wouldn't actually be a plus if the engine was seized up or the brakes worn down, as these are pretty easy fixes (for example, you can just drop a $200 junkyard 350 in it for now), but it could make the car considerably cheaper.

Again, this is just my opinion, but if you want to do a rolling restoration I really think that you need to stay away from that car. The price doesn't sound bad at all for an SS though, so if you can afford it you might as well buy it and put it up while getting more experience working on another car.

There are ballpark expenses, and there are real expenses. As I am finding out, the two rarely coincide.

thanks for all of the pragmatic advice - it was all sound - but would it surprise many of you to know that somehow i couldn't get the car out of my head and i bit the bullet and now own it (by the way, resolved the vin mystery - it was there, just painted over) - very, very happy to be part of the club. Have a bunch of pictures, but don't know how to post them.

This will start a long chain of questions as I tackle project 1...thanks in advance for your patience, guidance and good humor!!!

would it surprise many of you to know that somehow i couldn't get the car out of my head and i bit the bullet and now own it

Not surprising at all. None of my project car purchases has ever made sense. :D

its only a black hole if you want it for an investment- its not if its for love,enjoyment, and the deep satisfaction of driving a piece of great history. Now I just wish mine would get finished.

Mine started the same way- *oh----- it only needs the big block rebuilt- its already primered...and then that ONE LITTLE EENY tiny piece of rust-- and just like Emeril---BAMM!!!
it is down to the shell, going back together as time permits--- I don't even put a time for getting this thing finished----LOL... thanks goodness mine is in decent shape now and getting better each month.. GOod luck to you...


72 malibu--- in life support

Not surprising at all. None of my project car purchases has ever made sense. :D
ditto. It must be the water in middle america. LOL Jason.

the water...of course...and all this time i thought it was the corn!!!! LOL

the water...of course...and all this time i thought it was the corn!!!! LOL

LMAO! Yes, sometimes when I wake up the next morning and go out to inspect my new gem a bit closer, I'll think: "I must have been drunk" :beers::D