ok, in this post (http://http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105164&highlight=linkage)i was explaining my z-bar issues while installing my tremec. The z-bar was not level and would not allow adj rod installation due to header clearence. This may have been due to how the rear of the motor wasn'tr supported. Got the trans bolted up and on the cross member and this is what the linkage looks like now:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/eonick/5speed/linkage/DSCF0566.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/eonick/5speed/linkage/DSCF0569.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/eonick/5speed/linkage/DSCF0571.jpg
The z-bar still doesn't look right. What could this mean? I need new motor mounts? i know the bar might be suspect as far as the arms on it, but the main tube that the ball pivots slide in should be straighter than that, right. Any input would be greatly appretiated. Thanks in advance- Eric

Eric,

I don't see where the problem is... The bar looks straight in the pictures (from what I can see, but the nut/stud on the frame look way off )...

Whether the bar is level or not will be based on the frame bracket and the motor mounts, and mostly the trans mount...

Since you swapped in the Tremec, the position of the back oft he engine might have changed (up or down) which would affect the Z-bar...

Basically, you want your crankshaft to be on the same alignment now as it would be with a stock manual setup... Was yours an original stick car?

I guess you could unbolt the trans crossmember, and jack the engine up and down until the z-bar is "right", and then modify the trans mount for that installed hieght (shim, etc)...

i am doing an auto to maunal conversion. All the linkage is reproduction. I tried unbolting the trans cross member(new mount) and lifting it, but it seemed REALLY high(over 1in ) off the mount to get the Z-bar to line up. looks like i'm goin to have to pull the z-bar, bend the lower arm towards the block, and maybe take a BFH to the header

are you sure you have a set of headers for a manual tranny? I made sure that the set I got would work for my PG and my muncie when I eventually did the swap.

they are hooker comps. Ordered them from summit. It looks like i may have to dimple about 1/8-1/4 inch in

Is that Zbar for a big block rather than a small block ? A BB zbar is shorter than a small block Zbar.

Is that Zbar for a big block rather than a small block ? A BB zbar is shorter than a small block Zbar.
i thought 68-72 were all the same, BB or SB:confused: When i ordered the kit from ground up, they didn't ask if it was for a BB or SB? If they in fact are different, that could be the prob. Anyone else want to chime in?

Hooker Super Comp 1 3/4 headers WILL rub the bellcrank to clutch fork a little. I am using Speed linkage and wound up mounting the linkage to the inside to try and avoid it.

i thought 68-72 were all the same, BB or SB:confused: When i ordered the kit from ground up, they didn't ask if it was for a BB or SB? If they in fact are different, that could be the prob. Anyone else want to chime in?


Are you kidding? GU is the BEST, they NEVER screw up...............

OPG shows 68 to 72 all the same. 64 to 67 are different from BB to SB

Well, one more question... did you get the correct year Z bar ?

.i thought 68-72 were all the same, BB or SB:confused: When i ordered the kit from ground up, they didn't ask if it was for a BB or SB? If they in fact are different, that could be the prob. Anyone else want to chime in?

64-67 has different ones for bb and sb

68-72 are the same as far as I know

well, i was wondering if i could mount the adj rod on the engine side of the z-bar, but that looks like it might be a weird angle and make things bind/bend. What is the best way to dimple the header without messing up my ceramic coating?

ok, pulled the z-bar, and found what seemed to be a lot of messed up stuff. My z-bar is crooked and it looks like the z-bar fram mount in not facing the right direction? Is the tab supposed to be FACING the motor, not angled like that? Seems that is what the main prob is. CAn someone check theirs to see if it looks like that?
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/eonick/5speed/DSCF0590.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/eonick/5speed/DSCF0591.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/eonick/5speed/DSCF0588.jpg

The tab should be facing the block straight.

Looks to me like both parts are bent! Definite problem there.

i got the kit from Ground Up, thought i'd give the site sponser some business. I heated/ beat the z-bar straight, but i am goin to order a new frame tab from OPG. Its too tight of a bend/thick metal that i am capable of making myself.

One more thing to do would be to take measurements on the bar you have and call GU to get them to measrure one also.

Just an FYI with the headers. I have 2" comp headers. Had trouble with the 1 3/4 with zbar clearance. With the 2" I had a little trouble. I ended up bending the zbar a little away from the header and also used washers as shims by the frame bracket. This moved the zbar toward the motor a little. Works great. Installation was a pain in the neck. I know what you are going through. I wish you lived close to me so I could help you.

Just an FYI with the headers. I have 2" comp headers. Had trouble with the 1 3/4 with zbar clearance. With the 2" I had a little trouble. I ended up bending the zbar a little away from the header and also used washers as shims by the frame bracket. This moved the zbar toward the motor a little. Works great. Installation was a pain in the neck. I know what you are going through. I wish you lived close to me so I could help you.
Thanks for the support:thumbsup:

UPDATE. The frame tab is still like the pics above. It isn't straight with the block. I've been tryin to get my hands on orig frame tab, but i can't get a hold of one. The one from ground up isn't straight, the one from OPGI isn't straight. Whats the deal!!! This linkage issue has been hindering the completion of my tremec install! Does anyone else's look like this: http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/eonick/5speed/DSCF0588.jpg

UPDATE. The frame tab is still like the pics above. It isn't straight with the block. I've been tryin to get my hands on orig frame tab, but i can't get a hold of one. The one from ground up isn't straight, the one from OPGI isn't straight. Whats the deal!!! This linkage issue has been hindering the completion of my tremec install! Does anyone else's look like this: http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/eonick/5speed/DSCF0588.jpg
Maybe have one made as last option...Using the one you have as some reference.... a thought...Off topic, now is the time to spray some semi-gloss on your bare spots

UPDATE. The frame tab is still like the pics above. It isn't straight with the block. I've been tryin to get my hands on orig frame tab, but i can't get a hold of one. The one from ground up isn't straight, the one from OPGI isn't straight. Whats the deal!!! This linkage issue has been hindering the completion of my tremec install! Does anyone else's look like this: http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a306/eonick/5speed/DSCF0588.jpg
That's definitely not right. It looks to me like the back end of the bracket needs to be moved outwards (towards the driver door) to pivot the bracket and make it straight. Are there other mounting holes on the frame that you can use?

those are the only 2 holes in the frame, if it swings out anymore(to where it would be straight), the rear of the tab will be off the frame....2 repro parts from 2 diff companies....this is killin me...i need to get my hands on an original to see what the deal is

Are you sure that's the correct one for a '68 Chevelle? I will dig and try to see if I have a pic of what my mount looks like...

-Todd

Are you sure that's the correct one for a '68 Chevelle? I will dig and try to see if I have a pic of what my mount looks like...

-Todd
Almost positive. From what i have heard, the pre 68 are welded on, and the 68-69 use the same 2 bolt frame tab, BB and SB alike. Any input would help, thanks- Eric

I've heard that all '68-'72 tabs were the same? :confused:

Anyhow, I will load the pics up once the camera recharges (****ty batts).

The forward-most bolt, (towards the core support), measured ~ 5/8" away from the edge of the frame and the aft-most bolt measured 6/8" from the edge. This was with the bolt partly inserted and the ruler up against the threads of the bolt, and a straight-edge extending the side of the frame to get a better measure...

-Todd

Could it be for a monte instead?? ( I know for sure thoose are different.)

The front hole on the tab is a slot to allow some adjustment. While the rear bolt is perfectly round..

-Todd


Old Pic

Here is an old pic. Dunno if it will help at all?
http://xs54.xs.to/pics/05455/ZBartab.jpg

Sorry for so many posts, just shooting out info as I go. :p

The "tab" part that the Z-Bar actually goes on is definetly at a weird angle. Here is a pic of my original. Alot "straighter" then yours. I think you should return both of those pieces.

http://xs54.xs.to/pics/05455/S4300006.JPG.xs.jpg (http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs54&d=05455&f=S4300006.JPG)
Click Above

You are correct. That tab you are referring to should be parallel to crankshaft centerline. Did you mount the bracket to the factory drilled holes in the frame? We just finished installing a TKO 600 in a '70 convertible and had no issues like you are describing. However we did take a great deal of care to make sure that we mounted the tranny at the same angle as the original. If the back of the tranny is sitting low, the Z-bar will be angled down toward the engine, causing the lower arm to angle out toward the header.

i am doing an automatic to manual conversion. The tab is in the factory holes, they were the only 2 holes on that part of the frame, so it has to be the right ones. It just seems as if the 2 repro ones that i got did not have the right bends to them. I am looking for an original. If you compare my tab to the one posted by LateNight72, there is definitly a difference.

this pic doesnt help too much..but here is my (69) when I did my conversion. This zbar bracket is also a part that I got from GU. I don't remember having any issues with this piece, or how it mounted to my frame. As far as I know, my Zbar is straight like it should be.

Looks like they may have a bad run of parts, which doesnt surprise me...I have learned over the course of my resto that repro parts generally suck..and therefore nothing is ever as easy as it should be.

http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/4648/zbarframebracketinstalled1ek.th.jpg (http://img455.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zbarframebracketinstalled1ek.jpg)

onick..looking at your pic again vs. my pic..

yours looks like the bracket is up on the flat part of the frame more, whereas mine is mounted on the part of the frame that is angling down (unless its some kind of optical illusion I am seeing)...are you sure the holes in the frame are right? something looks off.

onick..looking at your pic again vs. my pic..

yours looks like the bracket is up on the flat part of the frame more, whereas mine is mounted on the part of the frame that is angling down (unless its some kind of optical illusion I am seeing)...are you sure the holes in the frame are right? something looks off.
Those were the only 2 holes in the frame @ that section so i assume that they have to be correct...they are the only 2 holes there on the frame

Heck, no thicker then that metal looks to be, just bolt her down on your frame and use a 12" Crescent Wrench to bend/twist her the way you want.

Will that work for you??

OR, drill one hole in it to move the back??

pdq67

Heck, no thicker then that metal looks to be, just bolt her down on your frame and use a 12" Crescent Wrench to bend/twist her the way you want.


Great minds think alike cause that was the first thing i tried, but it wasn't workin out too well. The bend in it is pretty tight, and that sucker is pretty solid. It wanted to strip the bolts before it would bend. I tried to figure where i would put a new hole, but the bracket would be at least 1/3 off the frame to put it at the angle i need it. I think BillsCamino said he might have a orig frame tab off his 72 for me, hopefully that will end this thread:clonk:

http://www.middletoninv.com/Chevelle/Images/Chevelle-clutch.jpg

Here's the page from the illistrated parts manual. (Dialup beware... It's big)

David

If you can bend it with a 12' cresent, $hit can it ASAP! I've purchased 2 aftermarket frame brackets before, both different.........both crap. The factory parts are a PIA to drill or bend. For a resto only the aftermarket stuff is okay, but not for performance.

The Z-bar should have the twist in the arm. I have an aftermarket one 1/2 price or trade if you want it, PM me. 68-72 factory GM Z-bars are different for SB and BB, the clocking on the lower arm is different. REPO is one part number.

Just search EBAY for the OE setup.

Is you frame tweaked?

Good Luck!

If you can bend it with a 12' cresent, $hit can it ASAP! I've purchased 2 aftermarket frame brackets before, both different.........both crap. The factory parts are a PIA to drill or bend. For a resto only the aftermarket stuff is okay, but not for performance.

The Z-bar should have the twist in the arm. I have an aftermarket one 1/2 price or trade if you want it, PM me. 68-72 factory GM Z-bars are different for SB and BB, the clocking on the lower arm is different. REPO is one part number.

Just search EBAY for the OE setup.

Is you frame tweaked?

Good Luck!

I'll see how this one will work once i get my frame tab in the mail from Bill. If the z-bar i just got from GU is suspect after that, i'll shoot you a PM. I don't think my frame is tweaked:confused: