I dont want to skimp here , but then again if I dont have to spend $400 that would be great.
I did a search on balancers and dampers and didnt get to much out of it except for the fact that more seem to stay away from fluid dampers.
This will be for a most weekend street bruiser soild roller 489 internal balance.
Would a stock 427 balancer work fine?
I probably wont turn it over 7000 rpm maybe a self imposed 6500 :rolleyes: .

Check out these Australian made balancers, Romac. Any opinions on these?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Romac-396-427-Chevy-internal-SFI-balancer-b4h_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33616QQitemZ8005921 050

Thanks, Mitch

I dont want to skimp here , but then again if I dont have to spend $400 that would be great.
I did a search on balancers and dampers and didnt get to much out of it except for the fact that more seem to stay away from fluid dampers.
This will be for a most weekend street bruiser soild roller 489 internal balance.
Would a stock 427 balancer work fine?
I probably wont turn it over 7000 rpm maybe a self imposed 6500 :rolleyes: .

Check out these Australian made balancers, Romac. Any opinions on these?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Romac-396-427-Chevy-internal-SFI-balancer-b4h_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33616QQitemZ8005921 050 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Romac-396-427-Chevy-internal-SFI-balancer-b4h_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33616QQitemZ8005921 050)

Thanks, Mitch
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Hi Mitch,
I have no direct information on the Romac except what I have been told & haven't heard anything bad about them but,,,
If it is in your budget use the ATI. There really is a reason 100% of the Cup guys & almost all endurance engines & use these.

I have some pictures of an "SFI" approved imported damper I just took a few weeks ago that had 10 races on it in an alcohol modified 383 I built.
It was insisted that I use a less expensive damper as he "didn't need" a $300 one,,,
He now has an ATI :D
Of course it ended up costing him about $700 instead of $300 after replacing the budget one along with a water pump, front cover,,,,,

And I do not use or recommend a Fluid anything on the end of your crank.

How about the Powerforce damper from Professional Products? Less spendy than ATI and can be had with SFI rating. An engine guy from CA told me about them ;) and I found that they were one of SEMA's top 10 products. Click here and scroll down: http://www.automotivearticles.com/SEMA_2004_New_Performance_Product_Updates1.shtml

How about the Powerforce damper from Professional Products? Less spendy than ATI and can be had with SFI rating. An engine guy from CA told me about them ;) and I found that they were one of SEMA's top 10 products. Click here and scroll down: http://www.automotivearticles.com/SEMA_2004_New_Performance_Product_Updates1.shtml
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Well,,, I wasn't going to mention names but since you asked,,, :D


Why I Use ATI

http://wsm.ezsitedesigner.com/share/scrapbook/19/190264/Pro_Prod_Damper_002.jpg

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http://wsm.ezsitedesigner.com/share/scrapbook/19/190264/Pro_Prod_Damper_003.jpg

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Well,,, I wasn't going to mention names but since you asked,,, :D


Why I Use ATI

http://wsm.ezsitedesigner.com/share/scrapbook/19/190264/Pro_Prod_Damper_002.jpg

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http://wsm.ezsitedesigner.com/share/scrapbook/19/190264/Pro_Prod_Damper_003.jpg

OOPS, enough said, A picture says it all

Mike: "Professional products" = Made in China???

Another vote here for ATI. :thumbsup:
Buy once and buy smart...

I went with a Jegs balancer, and it's SFI Certified. Here is the link http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?lang=-1&catalogId=10002&storeId=10001&categoryId=21635&searchItemId=80539

[QUOTE=EkS]I went with a Jegs balancer, and it's SFI Certified. Here is the link http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?lang=-1&catalogId=10002&storeId=10001&categoryId=21635&searchItemId=80539[/QUOTE (http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?lang=-1&catalogId=10002&storeId=10001&categoryId=21635&searchItemId=80539[/QUOTE)]
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Ummm,,,
Look at the above pics,,, notice what it says on the red ring??
Appears "SFI certified" doesn't mean quite as much as it once did?? :(

I personally would use a stock GM one before I would use another of these gems.

Just for info, Pro Products has a line of replacement dampers that I have sold a number of with no issues but this it the second "performance" one I have heard about & this one I know for a fact had only 10 races on it.

O.K. Im leaning towards ATI, looks like a quality piece, probabaly worth the price as mentioned.

Mike, I think everything, to a point :rolleyes: , is in my budget if it saves me from doing things twice. Ill just have to wait a little longer than expected :D , whats new...

Looking at Summit catalog they have 2 for 454 internal balance: steel $300, aluminum $380.
Is it worth the extra $80 for the aluminum? How much diff. in weight, cant find any info.?

Mitch

Mike,

I found an old email from you saying you deal in ATI dampers.
Do you still?
If so could you PM me a price on ATI-917060 or 917300, summit part #'s, or should I email you.

Mitch

O.K. Im leaning towards ATI, looks like a quality piece, probabaly worth the price as mentioned.

Mike, I think everything, to a point :rolleyes: , is in my budget if it saves me from doing things twice. Ill just have to wait a little longer than expected :D , whats new...

Looking at Summit catalog they have 2 for 454 internal balance: steel $300, aluminum $380.
Is it worth the extra $80 for the aluminum? How much diff. in weight, cant find any info.?

Mitch


Mike,

I found an old email from you saying you deal in ATI dampers.
Do you still?
If so could you PM me a price on ATI-917060 or 917300, summit part #'s, or should I email you.

Mitch
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HI Mitch,
The aluminum one is not worth the money for your application. About 2 lbs difference. in the hub. Inertia weight is the same.
The Aluminum hub is not recommended for endurance use.
You have mail in a minute :)

Wolfeplace, have you ever used BHJ?

Wolfeplace, have you ever used BHJ?
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Yes.
Quality piece but I prefer ATI
My understanding is the BHJ is pretty much a copy of the stock damper built with better parts & tested.
Nothing wrong with this except the stock damper was never intended for hi RPM or strokers etc.
The ATI is still an elastomoter (sp??) damper but it has two sets of O rings instead of one piece of rubber which as I understand extend the useful RPM range of the dampers damping ability.
ATI is as far as I know the only company that actually goes to cup shops & engine shops & will build a damper for a specific combination of parts when necessary.
They do a lot of testing & a gentleman by the name of JC Beattie there is the guy who's job it is to do this stuff.

Here is a little info from him that was posted in a discussion a while back on another forum. Some may not make much sense as it was in answer to a number of questions but the information should prove "enlightening" :)

"Hello Everyone,
I have been watching your thread for a little while now and I thought I would chime in and try to clear up some confusions.


SBCHEVY: Fluidampnr and diesel engines. Think about being under water, in a pool, and yelling while your friend is under water too. If you have ever done this you would realize that you can here the yell perfectly and clearly. That yell can represent the redline RPM on your engine or the High Frequency is what I would refer to that as. The water you were under, much like the fluid in a dampner, magnified or at the least carried the entire frequency, much as it would do with the high frequency noises your engine is making. That is why fluid does not work well on any sort of performance engine. And this is especially true at higher RPM. Fluid works great to dampen low frequencies only that is the reason you have them on big diesel engines. (As a note the fluid style dampers they use are often 11-12 inches in diameter and weigh 75-100lbs) The ATI damper for this application (not used on OEM diesel truck engines currently) is 8" in diameter and weighs 17lbs.


As far as GM Performance Parts selling dampers:

GM part number: 88962814 is sold on all the ZZ572 crate engines. That is the 8" ATI Super Damper.

GM PN: 24502534 is an ATI 7" damper for SBC.

GM PN: 24502535 is an ATI 7" damper for SBC with BB snout.


If ATI did a test themselves and used their very own equipment and then displayed the graph and showed ATI being the best, then this message board would be talking about ATI doing their own testing, blah, blah, blah. So then ATI does a test and has someone else do it for them, pays that person, even though ATI owns $50K worth of equipment to do this stuff with, and the test shows the ATI damper a whole 2/10th of a degree worse in one spot, then their damper is no good at the spot or anywhere near it. That test was done with off the shelf dampers on a performance engine. All that would have to happen to make the ATI line look the same at 6,300 as it does at 8,300 is to put a little bit softer rubber on the inside diameter of the damper.


Finally SBCHEVY, do you know why the SBC crank is available, or was ever made with a 1.600” snout? Well when the NASCAR guys were using stock dampers and Fluid Dampners they could not keep the 1.250” snout from breaking off their motors. Bill Elliot found the front of his crank and the fluid dampner attached to it sitting on top of the floor board of a motor home in the Talladega parking lot.
The whole unit went through the windshield and through the drivers seat! Luckily everyone was in their seats watching the race. After that GM and NASCAR wanted that fixed. First step, a band aide, the bigger snout. Next step, getting a damper that really worked, and even telling teams that just the ATI Crank Hub was better than running a Fluid dampner.


As far as ATI always talking about NASCAR races. NASCAR engines, in a 500 mile race, put as much abuse on the damper / engine as a drag racer would in 188 weekends of racing. So if your trip from Carlisle PA, to Pittsburgh was just like 188, ¼ mile full-out drag races, or 500 miles of 6000-10000rpm runs, then I am sorry, yes you would have to rebuild the damper. The rebuild schedule is on the front of the ATI damper. The one for you would be Street / Strip – return every 10 years. As far as fluid dampr’s, you will never know if they need to be serviced (which they can not be) because your engine will break first and then you might replace the dampner when you rebuild.


Basically any endurance racing engine builder sees the problems in one race if they have a damper that is not functioning. It takes a drag racer a couple of years and it might take a streetcar longer than that. Worst part is, the fix for a bad damper is usually way more expensive than just a new damper.

SKIDWNIT: If you read the chart and took nothing else into consideration, then I could see where you get your idea for choosing dampers. Makes perfect sense. I would like to know the name of who you spoke to at ATI that told you to use another brand of damper?? You could forward that to me privately or in public here on the board. As far as being, “Hung up on NASCAR advertising slogans”, please see the reply to SBCHEVY, on why that is. NASCAR races are the ultimate test of SB engines and their components. If your product can survive those races, or help other things survive, then that is a good thing! You will not find a Fluidampr on a Busch, Truck or Cup engine for that reason.


That is correct about the low RPM’s. If you are running your engine with roughly stock HP and stock RPM, then why would you need any performance parts? The only thing with stock dampers is that the ring with the timing marks will eventually slip, or come off all-together. That is why they are not SFI approved and why NASCAR and other sanctioning bodies mandate non-OEM dampers.


The graph on the website is not updated as the one in the catalog. Degrees Peak to Peak are a better term. Think at your crankshaft at rest. The peak-to-peak part is the crank twisting to the left and then returning “home” and twisting past that point. 6/10ths of a degree peak to peak could be 3/10ths in each direction. The acceptable limit for OEM Manufacture is usually 1/4th of a degree peak to peak and the acceptable limit for aftermarket race engines is 4/10ths of a degree.


JOHNZ: The actual difference between the two dampers at the worst point is a little over 2/10ths degree Peak to Peak. The acceptable limit is at 4/10ths of a degree. But as I said early, with a slight rubber change there would be no difference in that area, just weight and the ATI unit will be lighter.


WOLFPLACE: You can call most reputable crank manufactures and they will tell you who has the better damper. You are right on about helping someone elses part last longer! About the rubber. Units come in all the time that are 10 years old. They have been working fine with no trouble. Some people just feel better know that that what they are putting on is just as good as the day they bought it. The cost if much less than a new damper, $65 for a complete rebuild, parts and labor. With anything else you buy a whole new damper, or just send it in and have them spin it or shake it and say, buy a new one or its okay. Nobody really knows. Plus if you need parts replaced on your used ATI damper when you send it in, you get the cheapest pricing available to anyone on those parts for your damper."