Tell me what you think of this setup and how i can improve it for handling / hooking up:

10 bolt 2.53 non posi (obviously need a posi with 3.50's ish)
boxed lower arms Stock uppers
bilsteins rear shocks
cargo springs
air lift suspension bags
8" wheels 275 60r 15
stock rear sway bar

My goal is to get the car to handle better a piece at a time. How does my rear end setup look so far? With the air bags do these help it hook better? help suspension loading? I bought these with the intent to get the body off the wheel because i have the wrong backspacing on my wheels so the tires rub the quarters a litte. But will they help the entire car in general or hurt it?

What would be the next step to improving rear suspension?



This is a 69 hardtop chevelle

Air bags will hurt if you use them to raise the car, a bag in the right rear helps preload the suspension and keep the right rear tire on the ground as torque is trying to lift it off the ground. With boxed lowers you need them as close to parallel as you can get them to reduce wheel hop, stiff rear springs are okay as long as they don't lift the car. Are the rear shocks adjustable? to get it to hook they need to be pretty stiff. What are your intentions for the car? drag racing I hope? my info was leaning that way. I think you would be better off selling the wheels and getting a set with the right offset, so the backend can be set as low as possible.

Tell me what you think of this setup and how i can improve it for handling / hooking up:

My goal is to get the car to handle better a piece at a time.
So what exactly are you looking to do, turn or hook for straight line use? Your posts says handling, but by your questions it looks you are concerned with 60' times.

Well what im shooting for is a car that will both handle and be able to hook up pretty well. I sorta want the best of both worlds without making the car setup more for drag or more for handing. Sorta 50/50.

So you want to increase anti-squat while not adversly disturbing the ability of the suspension to freely articulate. Look into Edlebrock upper control arms and Wolfe Race Craft upper bearings/bushings with either UMI or Wolfe lower links. This combination will allow you to remove all slop from the rear. You also may want to look into some lowered but higher rate rear springs and run 50/50 shocks or better. The increased spring rate will increase the A/S numbers and improve handling.

Whatever you decide stay away from polyurethane or Teflon (Delrin) for this application. You also want to stay away from 90% of the products geared toward drag race suspension, it usually does nothing to improve the geometry or fix the problem but tightens everything to improve the A/S dymamics.

Dennis what do you think about lowering the lower rear control arm mount a bit to increase anti squat. The brackets would be an easy to fab. If reasonable, how much do you think they could be lowered to improve take-off traction without totaly killing handling and braking for for a general purpose street car?

Changing the angle of the lower arms to increase A/S would require lowering the axle mount and running the arms uphill so to speak. This would work for increasing A/S but at the expense of changing the roll steer characteristics of the design. Too much change could induce a roll over steer condition (not a good thing).

I would start with the simple bolt on changes and see how the chassis the responds before getting into geometry changes. The rear is far less forgiving than the front with this type suspension, every change has a negative side affect.

Changing the angle of the lower arms to increase A/S would require lowering the axle mount and running the arms uphill so to speak. This would work for increasing A/S but at the expense of changing the roll steer characteristics of the design. Too much change could induce a roll over steer condition (not a good thing).

I would start with the simple bolt on changes and see how the chassis the responds before getting into geometry changes. The rear is far less forgiving than the front with this type suspension, every change has a negative side affect.

Dennis I totaly agree! I have done the basic stuff, but I still think I could improve the 60ft by raising the front or lowering the back a bit. At this point with a mild motor it hard to leave without killing the tires. I do not want to go to a "drag" setup because I mainly drive on the street and do not want to trade off "safty" handling(I know you agree with that). I like a good handling car, but corning is not as important to me, as to you. I followed you lead on the rear bearing option because it just makes sence. With the wolfcraft bearings in the rear the No-Hops are not an option and the "lift-bars" have solid bushings and move the lower rear mount about 3 inches to gain A/S, so the lift bars may not be the best option for me. So my thought are if I relocate the bars say 1.5 inches I would improve the A/S some but find a "happy medium". I know you do alot of research on this stuff so a like to get your opinion. I think I could make the relocation plates in no time or expence. I do not mind some trial and error stuff, but like to start with a well thought plan.

I appreciate the help guys. I am going to change upper control arms and try to get the lowers as parrel to the ground as i can and changing from the stocks. Is that the right approach? How about the bilsteins are they good to stay? Eveybody has told me they are awesome handling shocks used on german sports cars.

Lowers should be parallel and the uppers are used for SVSA adjustment, don't get too carried with increasing A/S as the probability for brake hop increases.

Bilsteins are very nice shocks, Koni's are a step up as are QA1's.

Dennis, care to explain what SVSA stands for? Not all of us are savy in suspension terms.

Thanks.

I forgot to mention, a airbag in the right rear will help you hook better. With the 1 legger 8-10 PSI area is a good starting point.

I have air bags on both sides should i just put minimal in the left and 8-10 on the right. I remember reading somewhere a guy was almost able to get his peg leg to burnout like a posi track with air bags.

Side Veiw Swing Arm, this is the invisible line that runs through both the control arms as veiwed from the side. The length from the rear to where they would intersect in the front if they could is the SVSA length. The longer the length the less anti-squat you have. Ideally you would like to have over 100% A/S but this often requires shortening the SVSA so much that during hard braking the rear wheels will "hop", think wheel hop during launch only while trying to stop.

When I got mine I split a set with a friend with the understanding that the one in the right was most important. Forces on the driveline lifts the right rear which is the one wheel spins. The bag puts preload on the suspention to counter act the lifting. My best 60 foot was 2.10 with 14 inch tires and 2.73s. after some tuning. I went to an eaton posi with 3.42s and a the bag seems to still help.

air bags have never helped me one bit. tried 2, tried 1, tried different psi settings, nothing helped. imo, air bags are just a crutch for the real problem. you need to fix what is causing the problem, not band-aid it, imo.

air bags have never helped me one bit. tried 2, tried 1, tried different psi settings, nothing helped. imo, air bags are just a crutch for the real problem. you need to fix what is causing the problem, not band-aid it, imo.

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/148_0309_guide/index2.html

Check out this link and look at the picture that shows the motion that unloads the rear. The caption explains how a posi is a crutch that helps but does not address the issue, because the right rear still unloads. My understanding is that traction is mainly influnced but the grip of the tire and the weight pushing it down to the ground. What would be a better solution?

SSM lift bars and a rear sway bar, imo. i don't pay much mind to what magazines say. i've tried them, they didn't work for me, but the lift bars solved my problem, threw the air bags away. now my car sits level and leaves level.