Last week I finally purchased a front disc conversion kit after much research. This kit was COMPLETE! I mean everything, never had to leave the house. $649.95 It even came with ALL the hard lines pre-bent and marked, Master to prop valve and lines to front hoses, I didn't even know it was comming with them. Proportioning valve mounts in same spot and REPLACES old junction block, no mounting to side of master cylinder. This kit even had everything already assembled! Not the lines obviously. I was truely amazed and impressed, 4 hour removal and installation for a novice, front clip and motor removed so it made it easier. I would recommend this kit to anyone! Found it on ebay at Matts Classic Bowties item#6872cbk-s-11-2. Their # is 1-866-628-8746. Want to say thanks to Olle for all his help with the research and pics. Hope this helps someone. As always thanks to all,
Brian

2 thumbs up

Wow... that's cheap, considering that everything is included, and that it even fits. Glad it worked out for you! :thumbsup:

Matt's classic bowties is one of the places I looked at before buying my kit, but they were more expensive back then. I just checked their web site (http://www.mattsclassicbowties.com/) and a complete kit is $729. Was this some kind of special?

Would be interesting if you posted a review, I would really like to know more details.

Not sure if it was on special or not. I ordered the kit over the phone on 8/29 and recieved it 7 working days later just like thy said. I paid $649.95+$89.00s/h=$738.95 total. If the kit is now $729.00 I'd say it is well worth it, I still highly recomend it! Thanks for your help always guys!
Brian

That's very cheap for a "kit" but you can piece together your own kit using junkyard spindles for a few hundred less... but it may be worth the ~$300 to not have to search for parts, or drive around to every parts-store in town looking for the right parts.

That's very cheap for a "kit" but you can piece together your own kit using junkyard spindles for a few hundred less... but it may be worth the ~$300 to not have to search for parts, or drive around to every parts-store in town looking for the right parts.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but would like to ask if you have done the math on that. I assume that you're not talking about just slapping the junk yard parts on there, right? If you want to be sure that everything is ok, you will either have to rebuild or buy rebuilt master cylinder, calipers, prop valve, booster etc, and you'll have to buy new bearings, hoses, brake pads and maybe rotors. A complete but used and unchecked set usually runs about $200, maybe $150 if you're lucky. You're saying that you can do it for $300 less than that kit, and that only leaves $150-200 for the rest. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't see that you can really do it right for that kind of money. IMO, that will just barely cover the gas for running to the junk yards. ;)

I might add that I have done several conversions using junk yard parts. My experience is that you won't save much money, unless you already have a parts car or a good source for very cheap parts. And I don't know how many times I have bought used parts out of a bargain bin at a swap meet, just to find out later that they won't fit. :clonk: Maybe I'm just getting old and lazy, but I think kits are the way to go. :)

I'm not disagreeing with you, but would like to ask if you have done the math on that.
It's been about 5 years, and I don't have my reciepts handy, but I'm pretty sure I was in the $375 range with new rotors, new bearings, rebuilt calipers, new hoses, rebuilt master cyl, self-bent new lines, and used power booster and proportioning valve. I bought the complete used setup for $150 and turned the master cyl and calipers in for cores.

Gas was $1.05/gallon then, so the 15 miles each way to the junk yard and parts stores didn't really add much :D

You'd be amazed at the ammount of work I'll do to save a hundred bucks... much more work than you could actually pay me a hundred bucks to do :clonk:

You'd be amazed at the ammount of work I'll do to save a hundred bucks... much more work than you could actually pay me a hundred bucks to do :clonk:

I probably wouldn't be amazed at all, I used to do the same thing and sometimes I still do. I was one of the local junk yard rats for a long time and they even gave me parts for free sometimes just to get rid of me. :D But again, I'm getting old and I don't have as much time for this kind of projects as I used to have. Even if it can be fun to spend a day cleaning and inspecting grungy parts, and then decide what to reuse, it's not something I can do anymore :( When I started working on my latest project, I checked the prices with different parts stores, and I could probably have saved maybe $150 by doing what you did. However, I really wanted a new booster and prop valve, and the nice Delco-Moraine replica booster I got with my kit was what made the decide to go that route. Having all new parts, and knowing that I don't have to pull something off right after installing and trying it is worth a lot to me.

But yes, you can save money, if you invest your own time instead. Might also add that you also need more experience to do it this way, especially if you can't find a complete kit. Puzzling parts together can be... well, puzzling ;)

Thanks. You Helped Me Decide On What Kit To Buy. I Was Looking At This Kit On E-bay. I Was Trying To Find Someone That Had Used This Kit To See If It Was A Good One.was The Power Booster Just Like The Original One? Thanks Again For Posting This Kit. I Will Buy One Real So And Install It.thanks Again John

Are the calipers single pistons? I'd love to save money to, but, when it comes to the calipers, I can't help but think of forking out the extra cash for some dual piston calipers :D :D :D I'm assuming the rotors are "normal," meaning, they're not slotted, etc. Just curious :) Thanks! :thumbsup:

Yes, single piston and standard rotors. By the way, if you have 14in wheels you'll need to buy15's, I found out the hard way. I'm SLOW! But the good news is that I called the dealer and they are refunding half of my shipping because they felt sorry for me because I didn't know. Bad news is I need new wheels and don't have very much money left for my project!

Yea i bought front dics brakes too from Matts Classic Bowties. Really cheap and they work really good. I they work 10 times better then the factory disc brakes there putting on cars now

Yes, single piston and standard rotors. By the way, if you have 14in wheels you'll need to buy15's, I found out the hard way. I'm SLOW! But the good news is that I called the dealer and they are refunding half of my shipping because they felt sorry for me because I didn't know. Bad news is I need new wheels and don't have very much money left for my project!

I am considering on buying a kit for my son's Nova. It currently has these 14" wheels, and I am asking if the disk brakes will work with these wheels. My Chevelle has disk brakes, so I could see if those wheels would fit on my Chevelle, and if they would work on the Chevelle, I would assume they would work on the Nova with a conversion kit.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bbaker33312/album?.dir=/6357

Where on eBay?????

Freddy, got to the e-Bay Auto parts section, do a search on "67 Chevelle".


If you sort on expensive to cheapest, you'll see "Whitemanfords" kits at the top of the list. I've talked with him and Olle actually used his kit. Best price around and everything was included.

Look under the product evaluation section of this site to see Olle's report on the kit.

My experience was that it cost me 661.61 using used spindles, caliber brakets and dust shields. Everyting else I purchased new(using the old stuff as cores) with the exception of the combination valve that a TC member sent me for the cost of shipping(THANKS JASON). Had I had to buy a new combination valve it would have been another 64.00. If I had to do it over I would purchase a kit and save the time I spent cleaning/painting used stuff and the frustration of putting my own kit together as wall as the disappointment in inferior used parts(suppossed to be good and turn out bad)therefore having to replace them anyway. Pete

By the way, if you have 14in wheels you'll need to buy 15's, I found out the hard way.

Actually, if you're running a steel wheel with hubcap, you can run a 14x7 wheel, mostly found on early to mid 70's cars with discs. Some 14x6 wheels will fit, too, but it's trial and error. My Firebird has 14x7's in front. Even though they are Pontiac Rally II's, the outer rim is what determines if the wheel will fit or not. The car does have a 15" wheel in the back, due to the rear discs, but it's a small trade-off.

Hi All, just spoke to fatmanfab - their 2" drop spindle refferred to in Derek Kiefer's sticky is now due out in "January" - they have received a prototype and sent it to SuperChevy for a review (so keep an eye out) - here is what it looks like: http://www.fatmanfab.com/06page25.htm.

It seems that if you want a front disc conversion kit with a 2" drop spindle, this is the way to go (kit + 300) - the alternative is a kit + replacement control arms (or offsets) (if I have understood Derek's article correctly):

"Aftermarket upper control arms, or offset cross-shafts will be necessary for a proper alignment. The offset shafts are much cheaper, but some people have clearance issues with them, especially on big-block ‘64-67 Chevelles with headers."

Does anyone have any experience with the Matt's Classic Bowtie kit with a 2" drop spindle? Can someone explain to me why different control arms or offsets are needed (my first project...smile!).

As always, many thanks for your support and guidance

EDL, there is no need for aftermarket arms or offset shafts if you use stock-height chevelle spindles. (Height meaning the distance from lower ball-joint to upper ball-joint, not ride height of the car)

There are "Tall" and "Short" spindles. Stock Chevelle spindles are "Short", they put the UCA at a downward angle, creating positive camber under compression.(bad) You want negative camber under compression, for improved traction in corners, which is why "Tall" spindles or ball-joints are used. This angles the UCA upward so that it pulls the top of the tire inward instead of outward under compression.


The Fatman drop spindles are "Tall", and will require offset shafts or shorter upper arms. Other brands of drop spindles are "Short" and do not require any other mods... You keep the suspension stock, along with it's bad geometry and poor handling.

*note* with any 2" drop spindle, the position of the steering arm may interfere with wheels smaller than 17"

EDL, there is no need for aftermarket arms or offset shafts if you use stock-height chevelle spindles. (Height meaning the distance from lower ball-joint to upper ball-joint, not ride height of the car)

There are "Tall" and "Short" spindles. Stock Chevelle spindles are "Short", they put the UCA at a downward angle, creating positive camber under compression.(bad) You want negative camber under compression, for improved traction in corners, which is why "Tall" spindles or ball-joints are used. This angles the UCA upward so that it pulls the top of the tire inward instead of outward under compression.


The Fatman drop spindles are "Tall", and will require offset shafts or shorter upper arms. Other brands of drop spindles are "Short" and do not require any other mods... You keep the suspension stock, along with it's bad geometry and poor handling.

*note* with any 2" drop spindle, the position of the steering arm may interfere with wheels smaller than 17"

Derek, many thanks for the informative response.

There do seem to be other kits with tall spindles - in fact the one that started this thread from Matt's Classic Bowties offers the following:

"This is a complete 2" drop spindle 12" rotor power disc brake conversion for your 64-72 Chevelle or A-body GM. It comes complete with NEW cadnium plated 11" booster (64-66 uses a 9" stock booster), NEW CPP dual ported master cyl. and a GM delco prop. valve with lines. The wheel assemblies are also complete and PRE-ASSEMBLED eliminating the need for you to pack bearings, press seals, ect.. ITS ALL DONE! All you need with our kit is some good DOT3 brake fluid! Kit is lifetime warrantied and made from top quality components. The ONLY rebuilt part of this kit is the calipers. THATS IT!!! The kit does include a "conversion line set" to ease the install process and eliminate the need for you to cut or flare brake lines! Kits avail. with smaller boosters - call for details."

In speaking with him, the conversion kit for the stock spindle height in fact does not come with a steering arm, but uses the car's original steering arm. the drop spindle kit comes with a new steering arm - so there does seem this potential for interference with the wheels - can you explain why? - is there a way to remedy it and still use 15" wheels?

Separately, Matt insists that the drop spindle kit he is selling fits the stock upper control arm. Clearly it is possible to make a drop (or "tall") spindle that fits with the current CA's - Fatman is in that process. What would be the question to ask about the spindle to confirm that it indeed fits the stock UCA - is there a measurement or some other facet of the spindle that, like the fatman product, would indicate that it can be used with a stock UCA?

As always, many thanks for your support and guidance.

There are two critical parameters with the UCA:
1. The resulting angle of the upper ball joint when a taller spindle raises the UCA through it's arc. You need to make sure that with the suspension bottomed out the UCA does not try to angle more than the ball joint is capable of moving. Otherwise parts break rather catastrophically.

2. The length of the UCA required for proper suspension alignment, in particular camber. As the UCA is rotated into a flatter plane it's natural arc will make it longer. This is what leads to the positive or bad camber gain of the factory setup. With the tall spindle rotating the UCA you will need to compensate by moving the UCA pivot arm in. Possibly beyond the capability of the shim alignment system thus requiring offset pivots or shorter UCAs.

Steve

A drop spindle and a tall spindle are 2 different things.

Drop-Spindle - moves the pin (where the hub & bearings go) upward 2" to lower the car 2" without any changes in the suspension.

Tall-Spindle - The actual size of the spindle changes. The location of the pin may or may not change. The distance from the lower Ball-Joint to the Upper Ball-joint is increased, changing the angle of the upper control arm.

Tall Drop-spindle - Fatman Spindle - this does both, improve your suspension geometry and lower the car 2"

As for the steering arm interfering, look at your car, and see how close the steering arm to the outer edge of the rim (depends on size and offset) then imagine what would happen if you moved the wheel upward 2" and kept the steering arm in the same location. This is what most 2" drop spindles do. I would like to see the steering arms included with the drop spindles listed above. They may be relocated inward or upward, likely having an effect on bumpsteer.

Steve, Derek - thanks.

To be clear, the "drop" spindle kit quoted above from Matt's Bowtie Classics website will lower the front, but will not change the camber to make it more negative?

As always, many thanks for your support and guidance.

Correct. That is a stock-geometry spindle with the pin raised 2". Everything else is the same. It's perfectly fine for a driver/cruiser, unless you want to do some "spirited" driving on some fun twisty roads.

Thank you very much for the clarification Derek. A couple of follow on questions:

With respect to tall ball joints (upper and lower), am i correct in thinking that the rest of a "front end kit" (inner and outer tie rod ends, tie rod adjusting sleeves, idler arm bushings, and control arm bushing kit and bump stops) would all work with these ball joints as opposed to the ball joints that otherwise come with the kit?

If not, what else needs to happen (that is, what needs to be altered; what parts have to be swapped out) to accomodate the tall ball joints? Where would one get these.

Understanding the tall ball joints alter the suspension geometry, do they also lower the car? If no or if so, what would happen if you used the tall ball joints and 2" drop spindles?

Would the tall ball joint setup work with a stock spindle disc conversion kit (stock spindle heigh, 11"rotor, original steering arm)?

Any other modifications (apart from the front end kit question above) that has to be factored in or implemented?

As always, many thanks for your advice and guidance.

Thank you very much for the clarification Derek. A couple of follow on questions:

With respect to tall ball joints (upper and lower), am i correct in thinking that the rest of a "front end kit" (inner and outer tie rod ends, tie rod adjusting sleeves, idler arm bushings, and control arm bushing kit and bump stops) would all work with these ball joints as opposed to the ball joints that otherwise come with the kit?For the most part you are correct. Done well you *will* need a new UCA and thus the UCA bushings will probably be different from the typical front end kit.

...Understanding the tall ball joints alter the suspension geometry, do they also lower the car? If no or if so, what would happen if you used the tall ball joints and 2" drop spindles?It depends. A tall *lower* ball joint will lower the car by the amount of ball joint extension. Of course adding a 2" drop spindle will add another 2" to this amount. The upper ball joint does not affect ride height, only suspension geometry. The reason that both are used in better kits is to reduce the extension in each ball joint by extending both.

Would the tall ball joint setup work with a stock spindle disc conversion kit (stock spindle heigh, 11"rotor, original steering arm)?

Any other modifications (apart from the front end kit question above) that has to be factored in or implemented?Specifics such as this are best asked of the particular vendor as mileage may vary. I believe that SC&Cs tall ball joint setup does work with a stock spindle and disc setup. One of these days I will find out for sure, just have to get through a few backlogged Chevy projects first.

Steve

To best help you, we should know what are your intentions for the car?

What do you want it to do? It's easy to get carried away and spend more than you should on performance you will never "need". I did :D ($1100 and counting, front suspension only, no brakes or shocks yet :eek: ...and the closest track I could "use" it is 5.5 hours away :rolleyes: )

What is your budget? You could easily spend $5,000+ on the front of your car if you want the best of everything after you add it all up... trick suspension will only go so far, then you need bigger brakes. 13" brakes require 17" wheels... 17" wheels require more expensive tires, etc.

How will you drive it? Dedicated Race Car or Sunday Driver? Somewhere in between?.

Rank these things in order of what's most important.
-Appearance
-Performance/Handling
-Comfort
-Driveability
-Affordability

All, just had a long talk with Mark Savitske of Savitske Classic & Custom - he is extremely knowledgable and was very willing to spend time with me - his website - http://www.scandc.com/index.htm - through their FAQ, answered alot of the above questions - i'll try to convey what i learned - but it was a lot to take in for a newbie:

Stock 64 Chevelle set up (which is what i currently have):

- generates positve camber under load - bad, as it pushes the car on to outer part of tire/sidewall in turning situations; ideally would like neutral to negative camber to keep as much of the treadprint on the ground;
- has low pivot point (can't remeber the technical term - this is an imaginary geometric point that is part of steering geometry) that causes lateral "looseness" or drift, bump steer and wheels toeing out
- has neutral caster, whereas some positive caster is desirable.

His product is a kit with tall upper and lower ball joints, coupled with a shorter (and adjustable) upper controll arm - which moves pivot points vertically and improves all of the above mentioned problems, and allows for more easy alignment (or was it caster adjustment? or is that the same thing?) than shims.

This doesn't do justice the conversation and his knowledge - but its a start.

He did confirm that the 2" the drop spindle is a double whammy in that it does not give you any positive geometry changes (as Derek said) and it takes up clearance you need for the ball joint upgrade to be able to improve geometry.

So, with all that said and with budgetary contraints, I will be going with a STOCK spindle height front disc conversion kit, which will allow for some of the above performance improvements over time - if and when desired.

Thanks for listening and as always, thanks for your advice and guidance.

P.S. Mark's personal opinion was to stay away from the inexpensive polygraphite front end kits out there - he said he has seen some really poor reliability and durability on all fronts (especially the Chinese cast metal) - he recommends moog parts at retail as needed to build your own kit - more $, but more durability, reliability (which equates to safety, IMO).

To best help you, we should know what are your intentions for the car?

What do you want it to do? It's easy to get carried away and spend more than you should on performance you will never "need". I did :D ($1100 and counting, front suspension only, no brakes or shocks yet :eek: ...and the closest track I could "use" it is 5.5 hours away :rolleyes: )

What is your budget? You could easily spend $5,000+ on the front of your car if you want the best of everything after you add it all up... trick suspension will only go so far, then you need bigger brakes. 13" brakes require 17" wheels... 17" wheels require more expensive tires, etc.

How will you drive it? Dedicated Race Car or Sunday Driver? Somewhere in between?.

Rank these things in order of what's most important.
-Appearance
-Performance/Handling
-Comfort
-Driveability
-Affordability

Derek/Steve - thanks much for the input - our messages crossed.

Derek, fully take your point. In response...

I would like to have a safe, reliable, "solid driver" as Phase 1; phase 2 would be performance enhancements/body work.

PHASE I
Immediate items to get the car to achieve Phase I (these are the ones I know - more might (will!) come out of the woodwork) are:

- engine rewire
- front disc conversion (implicates new 15" wheels)
- seatbelts (implicates new floor pans...I think)
- exhaust replace or repair (implicates work on exhaust, floor pan, and/or trunk pan - goal is not to have exhaust enter cabin)
- "front end kit" - i.e., bushings, tie rods, etc.
- "rear drum kit" - 2 x cylinders, shoes, etc.
- transmission seal

Having said that, I want to restore "smartly" in order to position myself for longer term aspirations. What do I mean?

Take the brakes, as an example:

- without the research i have done an the input from all of you, i probably would have gotten the 2" drop spindle kit - why, because i would have ignorantly thought that the 2" drop would enhance performance; I now know the opposite to be true - it does nothing for performance (or so I am told) and in fact eats up valuable space for actual performance enhancements (like the tall ball joints), not to mention it costs $250 more than the stock spindle kit. Now, actually putting on the performance stuff will be part of Phase 2 - but the "smart" thing for me at this point (I think) is to do the stock spindle height conversion kit because: (i) it frees up $ for other things now; and (ii) it is a better platform for future performance enhancements in the front end. That is an example of what I mean by "smart" restoration. True enough, the ball joints become redundant in that scenario, but i want to try to eliminate choices that will lead to redundancy in the future and cost being equal buy the part that will better serve my future aspirations.

- wiring: i feel as if i might be caught between a part and a laborer on this one - a full factory style wiring kit is 720 (M&H) - painless universal is 350 (CPP) - each has its pros and cons, which given my experience level, and thinking about the ease of future repairs leads me to factory - down the road when something goes wrong, how will i know what splices the mechanic did? the part warranty is much better than the labor warranty -- BUT, the mechanic is grumbling and mutters the labor will be close to the same (read, he would prefer the money be spent on labor and not parts) - the SMART solution (IMHO), is to purchase just the enging and front lamp harnesses (250 - cheaper than either of the other two options) - labor must be minimal for that - and this sets me up to do the dash harness and interior wiring down the road (as many have said it may not be in desparate need), which i can try myself to save the labor, and have the factory system which is plug and play. PLEASE, these are personal opinions i have formed from listening to you, vendors, and doing a lot of thinking - if I have got something wrong, please shout!!!

My biggest worry is the sheet metal, as this blows the budget out of the water. The above, with parts and labor is roughly 3.6K (the cash my "boss" allotted me currently stands at 3.74 K (yes, I am cutting it close - original pot was 6K, 2.2K for car and .06K for the tow to the mechanics).

I requested a quote from the local body shop for just welding in floor pans (full), rear under seat pans and trunk pans, with the assumption that the inner rockers and cross members are good, and that i stripped everything out - so just labor on the welding - $1840!! The mechanic I am using out in the sticks near where the car was purchased said he would call someone and get a local quote but he figured $3000!!!!! If there are any TC'ers within a few hours of Chicago and know how to weld...name your price in parts, pizza, beer and any amount of dollars less than the above and I will head your way!!!!!!!

Derek, I hope this gives you a sense of where I am and where I would like to go.

As always, many thanks for everyones advice and guidance.

Stephen

Stephen,

Sounds like you are well on your way down the right track. Been there somewhat myself.

Good to hear that you connected with Marcus at SC&C as from the research that I have done, I believe that to be the optimum price/performance product available right now. I already have 15" wheels and disc brakes up front so the SC&C tall ball joint kit is very high on my "wanna" list. Especially for a daily driver to get improved tire life. Many years ago my parents had a then brand new 1969 Buick Sportwagon (with the windows in the roof) and I still remember to this day the complaints and problems with that car eating front tires. My '68 El Camino exhibits similiar tendencies. I personally will not buy any other ball joints but will go direct to tall joints.

Vroom, thanks for the affirmation...i am on a pretty steep learning curve...hope i am making the right decisions.

Finally made a bunch of purchases on Wednesday as follows:

Electric: started with the engine, wiper & front lamp harness - factory style; mechanic said that there was evidence of mice chew under the dash and said he wouldn't do any work if i didn't get full electric - he understood trying to parse the $ out, but with the evidence of splicing in of various electronic accessories under the dash, mice chew, and hooking up old and new, he said the threat of something going wrong was high, possible a fire, and he didn't want to do something that wasn't safe - i respected that - and given this was the option 70/30 parts to labor (as opposed to the inverse for a universal harness where the part is 30% and the labor 70%), this wasn't a play for disproportionaltely higher labor hours - SOOO, added on an underdash harness, courtesy light harness and rear lamp harness - i went with the factor for the reasons above - plug and play - easy for me to chase down problems in the future, etc. - figuring 1K installed.

Front End Kit: Mark Savitske (owner SC&C) steered me away from a polygraphite bushings kit - he said that it was too stiff - that the font end was designed for rubber up there to consume, hide uneveness, etc. So went with a MOOG kit from OPGI - here was an instance where I spent more (390 v. 325 for the poly graphite kit) - but again, this will be the platform for performance upgrades down the road. .85K installed.

Front disc conversion: as per the above, avoided the drop spindle for now and will save those inches for later performance enhancements, and so settled for the less expensive 11" stock spindle height kit - .95K installed.

Rear drum rebuild kit (self made kit by picking parts): includes shoes, cylinders, hardware kit, axle end seals. Parts were about .1K - .25K installed.

"Supertune up": drain/flush all fluids, change filter, points, plugs, etc. - .35 parts and labor.

So, assuming nothing catastrophic discovered that has to be addressed, this portion of phase one = 3.4K of a remaining budget of 3.7K...cutting it close, I know...keep fingers crossed. With car purchase and tow, 5.66K into car at that point.

Then need to replenish reserves, and tackle floor pan, trunk pan, exhaust and seatbelts.

As always, many thanks for your advice and guidance.

Stephen

Stephen,

I personally went a different direction on the wiring, but then I have never been afraid of a soldering iron either. I replaced my rusted fuse panel and overhauled the wiring harnesses. Of course I was doing some creative things in the process like adding a CS-130 alternator, headlight relays, electric fans, an underhood power distribution and fuse box, mega fuse for alternator feed, and maxi fuses for main power feeds.

Sounds like you are having all your auto work done for you. That really adds to the expense factor. There is no way I could afford to pay for all the work I have done myself. And, for me at least, that is part of the attraction. I already have many/most of the basic skills and enjoy the Chevelle-specific education. And finally it is cheaper than therapy. Not much cheaper perhaps but then that depends on the amount of therapy too.

You might want to add an HEI distributor into your future plans so you can dump those points. Reduces the tune up requirements and frequency dramatically.

Steve

Steve, I am having this initial work done as part of the deal with my "boss" (read better half) in that this crazy new "hobby" would not involve something lying around and undrivable that i would spend countless hours fixing - my ultimate goal is to get to your level - interest is there, reading books on welding, rebuilding chevy small blocks, painting, classic restoration, etc. - but for now, i saw 2 options to accomodate the boundaries i had set for me: pay 15K or so for a clean runner, or find a solid platform and refurbish up front (professionally, as my learning curve will take time) - sort of like buying a new house, or an older house, but with a commitment to immediately gut the kitchen and baths, and not "learn" and do it over time. Having said that, I assume there will be plent more to do - and once "restored" there will continue to be plenty to do and learn from - and then, of course, there are all those future projects!!!! (DON'T tell the boss!)