I'm looking for some experience here with the e-coat process. (I've looked through the archives to no avail on this particular subject.)

I have a 1970 Chevelle that I'm just starting a body-off-frame restoration on. In particular to the frame, I plan to have it e-coated by these guys ( http://www.ecoatking.com ). My question is to whether e-coat is strong enough to go it alone... or should I then have the frame powdercoated after being e-coated? In other words, is the e-coat as strong as POR or other frame protection coating? Is powercoating afterwords just overkill?

--Brian

Why not just powdercoat the frame and skip the ecoat and be done with it? MOst people including me just powdercoat the frame and forget about it. I think that powdercoating is probably the best method used on items like frames. Plus powdercoating needs bare steel in order to work right. It wont do any good to have it ecoated then try to apply powdercoat or even POR cause both need bare steel to adhere.

If you still ecoat it I would just scuff up the ecoat, prime it with an expoy primer like PPG dplf90 and paint with a urethane paint. Their process is pretty cool wish they were closer to me, but that ecoat wont hold up uncoated it needs to topcoated...Eric

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1970 chevelle
1970 chevelle SS455 not a typo its a BUICK BABY
1949 and 1972 chevy trucks
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/sevt_chevelles

Brian, I've been thinking about the same question. I think E-Coating is a great idea because it will get into the areas where the frame is boxed. This is close to impossible unless you dip the frame like ecoat king. I talked to a guy locally that will sandblast the frame and then powder coat it. He said the frame must be to bare metal before HE can powder coat. He said that after the powder is sprayed, the baking process would cause any primer or ecoat to lift. So I agree with sevt_chevelle, you should do one or the other. I'm still undecided...Tim

Eric: I guess I'm not sold on the sandblasting (or media blasting) route over the chemical dip for stripping the frame. (I'm open to opinions, so sell me!) That said, the only local people I know that can do a full frame dip is the ecoatking guys... and they mandate the e-coat application immediately after dipping to prevent surface rust on the bare metal. They have told me they partner with a powdercoat company "right accross the street" that they can send the frame to after e-coating. So, that's where my question comes from. IS ecoat enough, or do I need to double my expense and also powdercoat it.

One question I'll ask them is if they can just do the strip.. then ship it immediately to the powdercoat guys. This option didn't present itself in my conversation with them. This may be best, if they can do it.

Tim: Totally agree. Being in Michigan, I need all the rust protection I can find. I like the e-coat concept, I'm just not sure how resilient the coating is. If it's just a std primer, I'm going to need something else as a topcoat.

--Brian

I had my frame sandblasted then painted it. Good enough for who it's for. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif
E-coat is not enough, you will need to either paint it or powder coat. It's just like a new fender, you have to paint over the e-coat.

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Never be afraid to try something new.
An amatuer built the Ark,
Professionals built the Titanic.

Better to be judged by 12
than carried by 6.

Team Chevelle Gold #33
ACES Member #02913

[This message has been edited by T-Man (edited 12-28-2002).]

Here is another opinion. I work for PPG and have been working with ecoat for the past few years.

You can ecoat the frame, but you have to understand the ecoat is applied electrostaticly, as in the frame is charged and the ecoat is oppositely charged. The ecoat adheres to the frame until the charge is neutralized and you vary the film thickness by the voltage applied to the part and bath.

Now once the ecoat is applied, I wonder is powdercoating can be done. Only way I can think it could would happen is if a charge greater than what was used on the frame when ecoated would allow the powder to deposit itself. Again, not sure at what kV powder is applied but bodies get about 230-280 kV for the ecoat bath.

Finally, if you ecoat the frame, the frame will have to be primed and painted. The ecoat has no UV inhibitors, so over time it will crack and delaminate or flake off. So some topcoat must be applied to cover the frame and give protection to the ecoat.



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1966 Chevelle BSE 454, Th400, 3.73s, no times yet

analyte-- Don't you mean the powder coats are applied electrostatically? Aren't they baked after application of material? P.S. Agree, it's an either, or, decision. Karl

Brian, am not trying to talk you out of the ecoat process, what am trying to do is tell you, you cant ecoat then powdercoat or POR. I think that the ecoat system is cool and a great one, but that ecoat wont last uncoated. Ecoat is not desinged as a stand alone product is made for rust provention that needs to be topcoated. If you decide to ecoat the frame you MUST paint it or later down the road the ecoat will start to fail. I would prime it with dplf90 then paint with a single stage urethane like PPG DCC concept.

The reason I say most people just powder coat is because we dont have access to a company like that. I know of three powdercoat places in my area all within a 1 hour drive. The only company that offers that ecoat process is in Mich, and I and most others arnt going to drive to Mich to get ecoated. True powdercoating wont get into all those areas that their ecoat process will since its dipped, but its a one step process thats tough as nails.

I dont see how their partner company can powdercoat after the ecoat, maybe am wrong they do it everyday I dont. I would at least find out for sure, but am positive they cant powdercoat over the ecoat. Sure would like to know what they say...Eric


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1970 chevelle
1970 chevelle SS455 not a typo its a BUICK BABY
1949 and 1972 chevy trucks
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/sevt_chevelles

Ambition, actually both are electrostaticly applied and baked afterwards.

That is why I wondered if powdercoating over ecoat is even possible. Though with enough voltage maybe anything is possible.


Kerry

I would lean towards the ecoat and then a normal top-coat. I like the idea that the frame gets chemically stripped because it is impossible to get all the rust off with a sandblaster.

We use powdercoated enclosures at work and I've seen cases where the powder coating tends to loose it's adhesion with the surface. But, it is so strong it doesn't chip or flake off. This makes it really hold the rust in until it really bad before it actually begins to flake off and show the rust.

But, when the powdercoating is properly done it is very tough and a great surface. Unfortunately, it is hard to tell if it was done right and then a real pain to fix if it isn't.

Powdercoating could be done to the inside of the frame by blowing the powder into the boxed parts. It would be hard to get a uniform coating though.

Maybe you should look at galvanizing?

Being in Michigan, I hope you don't drive the car in anything worse than some rain after doing a frame off restoration.

Peter

Well, after reading all of your responses I decided to call Carponents (a/k/a ecoatking) this afternoon and discuss the situation with them. (Last I spoke w/ them was the Autorama in February.)

I spoke to Jim O'Conner (nice guy, BTW)there and not only did he say is it possible to powdercoat over the e-coat, but that's it's designed to applied that way & is *the* approach they recommend. He said any reputable powercoater should be able to do it... and upon my request, he recommended a local powdercoater that does the Big 3 production jobs (Burkard Industries) & can handle this.

I also asked if they can just strip and ship to the powdercoater. Paraphrasing, he said that 1) They don't recommend that approach 2) Several production parts are only powdercoated (such as trailer hitches) and look at how quickly those can spot rust.. the ecoat would give you the second layer of protection on those chipped spots.

(My other concern of dipping and then only powedercoating is that there would seem to be a higher risk of rust inside boxed areas of the frame.)

I then tried calling Burkard to confirm on their end, but they're out on holiday until Thursday. So, I'll double check w/ them and give everyone an update. If they confirm, I guess the only issue now is cost. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

Brian, I talked to the same guy at Ecoat King a while back. He was very helpful because I'm thinking of taking my car body there. I mentioned that I needed to do some sheet metal work first and he tried to get me to call some guy near him to do the work. I'm sure he knows more than me about his work, but is it a coincidence that he hooked you up with a powder coater? Maybe, but it seems logical to me that the ecoat would lift when the powder coater baked your frame. Let us know what you find out.