HOLLEY SNIPER EFI TUNING tips, info sharing, ideas, settings, etc... - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 212 (permalink) Old Dec 11th, 16, 2:37 AM Thread Starter
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David
 
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HOLLEY SNIPER EFI TUNING tips, info sharing, ideas, settings, etc...

I wanted to follow suite with the popular FiTech tuning tips thread but being more specific with Holley information.

ENGINE SIZE:
350

HOLLEY SETUP USED:
600 HP Sniper in shinny finish

ENGINE VACUUM:
Thinking it's around 13.

CAM SETTING (Stock/Mild | Street/Strip | Race) AND YOUR CAM SPECS:
Stock/Mild settings
Comp Cam 280/494

IAC COUNTS @ idle and cruise
????

TIMING CONTROL: Y/N?

Not at the moment but plan to soon.

IDLE RPM:
950

TARGET IDLE AFR:
???

ANY ADJUSTED PARAMETERS AND WHY?:
No setting changes yet. Looking for any suggestions.

ADDITIONAL NOTES:
I'm using a Tanks Inc. tank with a 255 LPH in-tank pump.
3/8" supply and return line.


I just fired mine up earlier today but have not driven it yet. I had an issue with a vacuum leak and then too high of an idle. I'll be going back tomorrow to do some idle adjustments and hopefully get it on the road for a little while.

Any suggestions on settings I should look at or change right off the bat?

1969 Camaro SS Convertible
350 | Tremec 5-speed | 3.73 12-bolt posi
Wilwood 4 wheel disc | Vintage Air | Hotchkis & QA1
Holley Sniper EFI system | Tanks tank and in-tank pump
Owned since 1985
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post #2 of 212 (permalink) Old Dec 11th, 16, 1:02 PM
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Bob
 
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Re: HOLLEY SNIPER EFI TUNING tips, info sharing, ideas, settings, etc.

I would not adjust or play around with ANYTHING until you've given it some actual driving time to learn.

Just double check ALL "needed" parameters that you have ser and entered, then once fully warm, set IAC with the idle screw, and drive it.

It won't start to learn until it's at 160 degrees, as measured by the Holley supplied coolant temp sensor...I had to change mine to an aftermarket one since mine read upwards of 20 degrees lower than actual....and since it's gotten much colder, mine was reading in the 150's so not learning at all.

I've also 100% POSITIVELY found that mine has an issue regarding running Timing Control.
I had done everything that the Holley manual said to do, and done the other things that were never even mentioned and still have a random, loss of power, which caused an intermittent stalling with no pattern to it whatsoever....
Since the Sniper datalogs are inaccessible until they finally release their software, there's nothing to check.
Distributor was locked out.
Holley required tuning parameter changes done.
Distributor/Computer Timing matched at all RPMs.
Rotor was phased perfectly
Reference Angle set 10 degrees above highest timing commanded
Inductive Delay set to allow timing match and steady reading
Timing parameters set as close as possible to previous mechanical/vacuum settings that have been proven over the last few years.
Idle was smoother, but extended idling or light throttle cruise, my car would randomly die, IAC would go full open, and act as if key was shut off, and engine restarted...

After this happening AGAIN about 10 times yesterday...I decided to AGAIN switch the EFI back to NON Timing Control, and AGAIN the car runs 100% fine like that, with no stalling whatsoever...I removed distributor, reinstalled the weights, springs, 11 degree advance bushing, and vacuum can. Set total timing at 44 degrees, and good to go again...Very pissed about this....

Anyway, hooked up sans Timing Control, the efi works, and car runs, great. What sucks is I had planned to use the Holley to control ALL nitrous functions, including timing retard, and now that's not going to be an option, evidently...

1971 Chevelle SS "439" 2.1 tons of fun...
11.31@117 w/4.10's, 4200+ stall, QFT SS-830 carb
11.72@115 w/3.90's, 3300 stall, and Fitech GoEFI4
11.51@116 w/3.90's, 3300 stall, and Holley Sniper EFI
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post #3 of 212 (permalink) Old Dec 11th, 16, 8:04 PM Thread Starter
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David
 
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Re: HOLLEY SNIPER EFI TUNING tips, info sharing, ideas, settings, etc.

I was able to get the idle down and get the car out on the road. There will be some tweaking I need to do but here are the two things I need to address first if anyone has any suggestions.

1. When switching through gears (it's a manual trans) or coming up to a stop light/sign, the idle stays high. It stays around 1,800 RPM until I whip the throttle. Then it will return to the normal idle. I but a slightly stiffer throttle return spring on it trying to make sure that wasn't the issue. I then read through some of the touch screen manual and saw where it talked about an IAC Decay. From what I understood from that was the time that it took to go back down to idle. It was initially set as 4.0 but I then changed it to 2.0 and then down to 1.0. It didn't seem to affect it either way.


2. When I initially start it up it doesn't start as soon as I think it should plus when it does start the idle is fairly high (~1,300 RPM) for about 2 - 3 seconds and then it settles down to closer to what I have set.

BTW: my hot idle is set at 650 but it still stays around 680 - 700 RPM.


I'm sure it probably needs more drive time but I don't know that these issues will get fixed on their own through just self learning.

As a side note, I've owned this car for just over 31 years and it's had the same motor for approximately 30 of those years. This by far has been the best it has ever run on the top end. I was able to get out a 6 lane country road with a long stretch with no cars. So I decided to lay in to it for some WOT learning. It continued to pull like it never has before. It put a nice smile back on my face.

1969 Camaro SS Convertible
350 | Tremec 5-speed | 3.73 12-bolt posi
Wilwood 4 wheel disc | Vintage Air | Hotchkis & QA1
Holley Sniper EFI system | Tanks tank and in-tank pump
Owned since 1985
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post #4 of 212 (permalink) Old Dec 11th, 16, 8:35 PM
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Dave
 
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Re: HOLLEY SNIPER EFI TUNING tips, info sharing, ideas, settings, etc.

Just received my sniper 550-511. Right now reading through instructions, and planning out my system. Waiting on my PowerSurge from RobbMc. One thing I've been thinking about is the coolant temp sensor. The one available port in the intake has the sensor for my Dakota VHX temp gauge. I see a threaded plug in the head, but don't really want to mess with that. Plus thinking my headers are going to heat soak the crap out of it. Anyone have any suggestions on what I could do? Is it possible to combine the wires to feed off the one sensor? If my only choice is the head, would it be best to put the sensor for the Sniper or the VHX gauge there?

70 Chevelle 396, TH400, Moser 12 bolt, custom Tom's Eaton posi, 3.73, UMI/Viking front suspension, PMT rear.
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post #5 of 212 (permalink) Old Dec 11th, 16, 9:06 PM Thread Starter
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David
 
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Re: HOLLEY SNIPER EFI TUNING tips, info sharing, ideas, settings, etc.

Do you have a stock intake or aftermarket one? Are you sure you only have one port on your manifold? I had the same issues trying to find a place for my coolant sensor. I have two ports, one on each side of the t-stat housing, one was being used by a heater hose and the other was being covered up by the radiator hose. I went round and round about what to do and ultimately what I did was put the Sniper sensor to the left of my t-stat then added a 1" t-stat housing spacer which gave me enough room to move the heater hose to the right side of the t-stat housing. My driver side head port is where my aftermarket temp sensor is and my driver side port hasn't had it's plug out in over 30 years so I know it's not coming out easily.

Now, one option you'll come across is to use the port in your manifold for the Sniper sensor and then get the Holley water temp gauge that will hook to the EFI. So, the EFI will let you know what the temp is. It's cool and I would love to go that route but it's something like $80 for the gauge and then $100 for the harness to hook it to the EFI. I didn't want to spend that kind of money right now.

1969 Camaro SS Convertible
350 | Tremec 5-speed | 3.73 12-bolt posi
Wilwood 4 wheel disc | Vintage Air | Hotchkis & QA1
Holley Sniper EFI system | Tanks tank and in-tank pump
Owned since 1985
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post #6 of 212 (permalink) Old Dec 11th, 16, 10:15 PM
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Dave
 
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Re: HOLLEY SNIPER EFI TUNING tips, info sharing, ideas, settings, etc.

It's an Edelbrock perf rpm. Left port has heater hose, right port has temp sensor for my Dakota VHX gauge. So I definitely don't want to add another gauge. I have no idea how long the plug in the head has been untouched, and I'm not sure I want to mess with it. It's not like I use the heat in the car, but if I removed the heater hoses, I feel it would look unfinished, unless I went all the way and removed heater core all together, and covered it up. But I don't want to do that. Wondering if the Sniper just uses the sensor to kick into learn mode, and if I could tie in both (sniper and VHX temp gauge) to the one sensor.

70 Chevelle 396, TH400, Moser 12 bolt, custom Tom's Eaton posi, 3.73, UMI/Viking front suspension, PMT rear.
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post #7 of 212 (permalink) Old Dec 11th, 16, 10:48 PM
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Dan
 
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Re: HOLLEY SNIPER EFI TUNING tips, info sharing, ideas, settings, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 70CHEVELLE396 View Post
Just received my sniper 550-511. Right now reading through instructions, and planning out my system. Waiting on my PowerSurge from RobbMc. One thing I've been thinking about is the coolant temp sensor. The one available port in the intake has the sensor for my Dakota VHX temp gauge. I see a threaded plug in the head, but don't really want to mess with that. Plus thinking my headers are going to heat soak the crap out of it. Anyone have any suggestions on what I could do? Is it possible to combine the wires to feed off the one sensor? If my only choice is the head, would it be best to put the sensor for the Sniper or the VHX gauge there?
I have been running the Sensor for my FiTech in the Head for a several months with no issues, placed a tube of Insulation around it to protect plastic housing from ambient heat, it will read hotter than the Gauge Probe mounted in Thermostat Housing initially however once engine up to operating temperature & cruising they are near identical.
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1972 Chevelle - 549ci BBC, FiTech Meanstreet , 680+ TQ & HP - 11.2 @ 123mph
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post #8 of 212 (permalink) Old Dec 12th, 16, 1:08 AM Thread Starter
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David
 
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Re: HOLLEY SNIPER EFI TUNING tips, info sharing, ideas, settings, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 70CHEVELLE396 View Post
It's an Edelbrock perf rpm. Left port has heater hose, right port has temp sensor for my Dakota VHX gauge. So I definitely don't want to add another gauge. I have no idea how long the plug in the head has been untouched, and I'm not sure I want to mess with it. It's not like I use the heat in the car, but if I removed the heater hoses, I feel it would look unfinished, unless I went all the way and removed heater core all together, and covered it up. But I don't want to do that. Wondering if the Sniper just uses the sensor to kick into learn mode, and if I could tie in both (sniper and VHX temp gauge) to the one sensor.
One option that I was going to do and would probably work for you is to put the Sniper sensor where your heater hose is currently, then use the 1" t-stat adapter which has two 3/8" NPT ports, then use a 3/8" NPT to 1/2" barb. Relocate your heater hose to the 1" spacer. It might take your heater a little longer to warm up but it should work.

https://www.summitracing.com/int/par...re-enterprises (you can get them in chrome as well)

Earl's 984408: NPT to Hose Barb Adapter Fitting 3/8" NPT Male to 1/2" Hose Barb | JEGS (should be able to get this in black as well)

I've attached a picture where I was going to put the sensor in the adapter but that won't work because the t-stat is below the adapter. However, imagine the sensor and heater hose switched in this scenario. I would just use the driver's side port on the adapter with that 45* barb.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

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1969 Camaro SS Convertible
350 | Tremec 5-speed | 3.73 12-bolt posi
Wilwood 4 wheel disc | Vintage Air | Hotchkis & QA1
Holley Sniper EFI system | Tanks tank and in-tank pump
Owned since 1985
caverman is offline  
post #9 of 212 (permalink) Old Dec 12th, 16, 1:18 AM Thread Starter
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David
 
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Re: HOLLEY SNIPER EFI TUNING tips, info sharing, ideas, settings, etc.

@70CHEVELLE396 ...another thing you need to think about that I didn't until it actually came time is how you will attach your EFI to the battery terminals. You're supposed to go straight to the battery terminals for both the positive and negative. My terminals were not the type that would accept an add on wire. I ended up cutting off my ends, buying some marine terminals, and then added some battery terminal lugs to connect them all. It was a pain to find some silver (tinned) lugs but I did find some and once it was all said and done I'm happy with the way it turned out. I'm going to eventually do an install thread on what I did and I'll post some pictures there.
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1969 Camaro SS Convertible
350 | Tremec 5-speed | 3.73 12-bolt posi
Wilwood 4 wheel disc | Vintage Air | Hotchkis & QA1
Holley Sniper EFI system | Tanks tank and in-tank pump
Owned since 1985
caverman is offline  
post #10 of 212 (permalink) Old Dec 12th, 16, 1:25 AM
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Dave
 
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Re: HOLLEY SNIPER EFI TUNING tips, info sharing, ideas, settings, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by caverman View Post
@70CHEVELLE396 ...another thing you need to think about that I didn't until it actually came time is how you will attach your EFI to the battery terminals. You're supposed to go straight to the battery terminals for both the positive and negative. My terminals were not the type that would accept an add on wire. I ended up cutting off my ends, buying some marine terminals, and then added some battery terminal lugs to connect them all. It was a pain to find some silver (tinned) lugs but I did find some and once it was all said and done I'm happy with the way it turned out. I'm going to eventually do an install thread on what I did and I'll post some pictures there.
Thanks a lot for the info. I am also having connections stack up at the battery too. I want to make my own custom battery cables. Have a junction for all the connections. Try to make it clean.
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70 Chevelle 396, TH400, Moser 12 bolt, custom Tom's Eaton posi, 3.73, UMI/Viking front suspension, PMT rear.
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post #11 of 212 (permalink) Old Dec 12th, 16, 8:42 AM
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Bob
 
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Re: HOLLEY SNIPER EFI TUNING tips, info sharing, ideas, settings, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by caverman View Post
I was able to get the idle down and get the car out on the road. There will be some tweaking I need to do but here are the two things I need to address first if anyone has any suggestions.

1. When switching through gears (it's a manual trans) or coming up to a stop light/sign, the idle stays high. It stays around 1,800 RPM until I whip the throttle. Then it will return to the normal idle. I but a slightly stiffer throttle return spring on it trying to make sure that wasn't the issue. I then read through some of the touch screen manual and saw where it talked about an IAC Decay. From what I understood from that was the time that it took to go back down to idle. It was initially set as 4.0 but I then changed it to 2.0 and then down to 1.0. It didn't seem to affect it either way.

If it didn't affect it in anyway, I'd put it back where it was. You absolutely NEED to drive the car, and let it learn. If you just got the car running, there's no way it has learned enough to reasonably compensate for your combo. The biggest mistake many people make with these throttle body efi setups is to (A.) start changing stuff before it's had nearly enough time to adjust itself, and (B.) Change multiple things at once....

Just get the basic parameters set, get your IDLE/IAC set, once fully warmed up, and DRIVE it. From the main "Monitor" screen, on the AFR screen, the middle gauge on left side (CL COMP %) will tell you when it's got adequate learn time. The closer that reading stays to zero, the more it has "learned". Once you've gotten a decent amount of driving done, and CL COMP % is near zero most everywhere, you can ADD this learned info to the BASE FUELING.
Go to: TUNING > ADVANCED > ADV. LEARN > Transfer Learned Data....This will transfer the learned data to the base fuel map


2. When I initially start it up it doesn't start as soon as I think it should plus when it does start the idle is fairly high (~1,300 RPM) for about 2 - 3 seconds and then it settles down to closer to what I have set.

BTW: my hot idle is set at 650 but it still stays around 680 - 700 RPM.

It's normal to remain slightly higher for just a few seconds. I'd bet you do not have the IDLE SCREW/IAC Counts dialed in yet.

I'm sure it probably needs more drive time but I don't know that these issues will get fixed on their own through just self learning.

DEFINITELY needs a lot more LEARN TIME.

As a side note, I've owned this car for just over 31 years and it's had the same motor for approximately 30 of those years. This by far has been the best it has ever run on the top end. I was able to get out a 6 lane country road with a long stretch with no cars. So I decided to lay in to it for some WOT learning. It continued to pull like it never has before. It put a nice smile back on my face.

That's awesome! Idle and overall driveability will also get better and better for you, as it's driven in various temperatures, and conditions.
RED highlighted above...
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1971 Chevelle SS "439" 2.1 tons of fun...
11.31@117 w/4.10's, 4200+ stall, QFT SS-830 carb
11.72@115 w/3.90's, 3300 stall, and Fitech GoEFI4
11.51@116 w/3.90's, 3300 stall, and Holley Sniper EFI
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post #12 of 212 (permalink) Old Dec 12th, 16, 8:56 AM
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Re: HOLLEY SNIPER EFI TUNING tips, info sharing, ideas, settings, etc.

ENGINE SIZE:
439 BBC

HOLLEY SETUP USED:
600 HP Sniper in shinny finish

ENGINE VACUUM:
8-9"

CAM SETTING (Stock/Mild | Street/Strip | Race) AND YOUR CAM SPECS:
Street/Strip
.233/.243@.050", 620.600 lift, 107 LSA

IAC COUNTS @ IDLE
7-8

TIMING CONTROL: Y/N?
NO.
Tried to run it on 2 separate occasions. I need to contact Holley Tech to determine if mine needs to be sent back, or needs some sort of an upgrade/update. Car randomly stalls (loses voltage/power) whenever Timing Control was enabled.

IDLE RPM:
900

TARGET IDLE AFR:
14.7

ANY ADJUSTED PARAMETERS AND WHY?:
Target Idle and Cruise AFR changed from default of 13.5/14.0 to 14.7/14.5 respectively. Smoother idle and very smooth cruise. If cruise AFR is set leaner, I get misfire at low rpm/low load. WOT AFR set at 12.5, as it was out of the box.
I also lowered CLOSED LOOP enable temperature, to 120 degrees to prevent any OPEN LOOP/CLOSED LOOP crossovers at the dragstrip.

ADDITIONAL NOTES:
TanksInc tank, 255lph pump, stock 3/8" feed line, 3/8" return,
I also had to replace the original coolant temperature sensor, to a STANDARD part# TX3T to get handheld screen temperatures to match my Autometer gauge temperature readings...Factory sensor read much lower than actual (150's instead of 170's) which kept car out of Learn Mode.
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post #13 of 212 (permalink) Old Dec 12th, 16, 9:49 AM
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Re: HOLLEY SNIPER EFI TUNING tips, info sharing, ideas, settings, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by caverman View Post
One option that I was going to do and would probably work for you is to put the Sniper sensor where your heater hose is currently, then use the 1" t-stat adapter which has two 3/8" NPT ports, then use a 3/8" NPT to 1/2" barb. Relocate your heater hose to the 1" spacer. It might take your heater a little longer to warm up but it should work.

https://www.summitracing.com/int/par...re-enterprises (you can get them in chrome as well)
Product description: "Adapter does not raise location of thermostat."

This leaves the thermostat between it (the thermostat adapter) and the manifold placing the 3/8" port on the wrong side of the thermostat. The sensor needs to be in the intake manifold side of the coolant, not on the radiator side of the thermostat.

Using this will only expose the sensor to coolant after the thermostat has opened. Until it's opened, the fuel injection system isn't getting accurate temperature readings. This may also be why the heater core takes longer to warm up.

These raise the thermostat leaving the ports below them in manifold coolant:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ctr-80-116/overview/

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/m...028r/overview/

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/a...0375/overview/
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post #14 of 212 (permalink) Old Dec 12th, 16, 10:20 AM Thread Starter
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Re: HOLLEY SNIPER EFI TUNING tips, info sharing, ideas, settings, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul bell View Post
Product description: "Adapter does not raise location of thermostat."

This leaves the thermostat between it (the thermostat adapter) and the manifold placing the 3/8" port on the wrong side of the thermostat. The sensor needs to be in the intake manifold side of the coolant, not on the radiator side of the thermostat.

Using this will only expose the sensor to coolant after the thermostat has opened. Until it's opened, the fuel injection system isn't getting accurate temperature readings. This may also be why the heater core takes longer to warm up.

These raise the thermostat leaving the ports below them in manifold coolant:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ctr-80-116/overview/

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/m...028r/overview/

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/a...0375/overview/
Correct, the one I got doesn't actually move the t-stat above the spacer. The second link is what I got in chrome and it's funny that in the main description is says it moves the t-stat up but in the small description it says it doesn't. I know the other links say that they move the t-stat up but I'm not sure they actually do. Without seeing if the other side has a small lip to hold the t-stat I'm not 100% they would actually move the t-stat up.

Either way, that's why I suggest to move the heater hose to the adapter and put the sensor directly into the manifold like the instructions suggest. The sensor is going to be more important to keep accurate temperature than the heater hose needs.

I do like that third spacer if you go that route because it has 1/2" ports. That would keep you from having to reduce the water flow down to 3/8" when it goes into the spacer. Again, I wouldn't think that would be a huge deal other than taking your heater a little longer to heat up.
70CHEVELLE396 likes this.

1969 Camaro SS Convertible
350 | Tremec 5-speed | 3.73 12-bolt posi
Wilwood 4 wheel disc | Vintage Air | Hotchkis & QA1
Holley Sniper EFI system | Tanks tank and in-tank pump
Owned since 1985
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post #15 of 212 (permalink) Old Dec 12th, 16, 10:30 AM Thread Starter
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David
 
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Re: HOLLEY SNIPER EFI TUNING tips, info sharing, ideas, settings, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 70CHEVELLE396 View Post
Thanks a lot for the info. I am also having connections stack up at the battery too. I want to make my own custom battery cables. Have a junction for all the connections. Try to make it clean.
When I asked about using a junction box on the Holley forum it was suggested that you don't put the EFI on a junction box at all and to go straight to the terminal. Hopefully I can get a picture posted in the next day or two of what I did. I think it turned out pretty good and it allowed me to hook my EFI directly to the terminal plus power a junction box for my other connections.
70CHEVELLE396 likes this.

1969 Camaro SS Convertible
350 | Tremec 5-speed | 3.73 12-bolt posi
Wilwood 4 wheel disc | Vintage Air | Hotchkis & QA1
Holley Sniper EFI system | Tanks tank and in-tank pump
Owned since 1985
caverman is offline  
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