FITECH EFI TUNING tips, info sharing, ideas, settings, etc... - Page 2 - Chevelle Tech
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post #16 of 1713 (permalink) Old Apr 15th, 16, 9:51 PM
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Chris
 
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Re: FITECH EFI TUNING tips, info sharing, ideas, settings, etc...

I went right to the battery with the red wire EXCEPT I installed another fuse.
Being an Electrician, we protect the wire at the SOURCE!
I also used the orange wire to feed the 400lph walbro pump.
I shortened it to about 2'and attached it to a 10 gauge orange back to the pump and I also ran a 10 gauge black from the pump to the neg of the battery.
I know it's overkill...but it's an electrician thing!
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73 nova,3515#(all steel)406ci N/A, best 1/4,1.45 '60,6.75@100.48,10.6 @ 122.38, short shifting,NO tuning!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng86PsGUcTY
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post #17 of 1713 (permalink) Old Apr 17th, 16, 10:32 PM
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Re: FITECH EFI TUNING tips, info sharing, ideas, settings, etc...

Not a Chevy, but the more info the merrier. Just got mine buttoned up last night and went driving today

ENGINE SIZE:
493" BB Mopar

FITECH SETUP USED:
Go EFI 8

FUEL SYSTEM:
Racetronix 255 and 340 in tank in parallel. Running on 255 for now, will stage 340 in I open the bottle

ENGINE VACUUM:
~7in at idle

CAM SETTING (1,2,3, or 4) AND YOUR CAM SPECS:
Setting 4 so far.
260/266 @ 0.050, 110 LSA

IAC COUNTS @ idle and cruise
~6 counts at idle

TIMING CONTROL: Y/N?
Not Yet. MSD, 18 initial, 34 total

IDLE RPM:
870

TARGET IDLE AFR:
14.0

ANY ADJUSTED PARAMETERS AND WHY?:
Increased IAC loop down to 20 to help resume normal idle after flare up.

Dialed in PWM for fuel pump, was only able to ~60% at idle before I started to loose pressure. I may play with the fuel flow breakpoints.

Will need to mess with cold start a bit, seems to take 2 tries to fire. I have started to lean out idle and cruise, but I have a whopping 30 miles on it so far...so I imagine things will improve still. When I tip in slowly, I get a small hesitation. When I stab it quick, its fine. Might need to tweak the Accel settings.

Its a shame you cannot record everything, you have to launch the logger of the screen you want to capture at that time.



WIRING:
I ran 10g for both battery and fuel pump. The fuse inline for the pump is 30A. Whatever was on the harness seemed a bit small. Maybe OK if running 3ft to the FCC, but not to the trunk.
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post #18 of 1713 (permalink) Old Apr 18th, 16, 7:49 AM Thread Starter
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Re: FITECH EFI TUNING tips, info sharing, ideas, settings, etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by OUTLAWD View Post
Not a Chevy, but the more info the merrier. Just got mine buttoned up last night and went driving today

.
No doubt. Thanks for sharing.

1971 Chevelle SS "439" 2.1 tons of fun...
11.31@117 w/4.10's, 4200+ stall, QFT SS-830 carb
11.72@115 w/3.90's, 3300 stall, and Fitech GoEFI4
11.51@116 w/3.90's, 3300 stall, and Holley Sniper EFI
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post #19 of 1713 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 16, 1:29 PM
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Re: FITECH EFI TUNING tips, info sharing, ideas, settings, etc...

I have tweaked the idle setting to have 9-11 IAC counts in gear, off idle response seems improved. Also leaned out part throtle and idle a bit more

I logged some more miles, but noticed some of my fuel learns were maxed out, so I decided to modify the Cam VE surface based on the long term fuel adaptations.

What I did was find the "Cam4" VE surface that I was running, then find the 3D LT Fuel_1 Adapt surface that is populated from the fuel learn values. I interpolated the Fuel Learn Surface to match the breakpoints of the VE surface, then just multiplied the VE surface by the adaptation percentage. Areas of the Fuel Learn that are 100% either need no adjustment, or have no data to base an adjustment off of. I hand smoothed the surface in these areas with no data.

This should help speed up the learn process, as well as make the car a bit smoother when I transition to a part of the map that has not learned yet. So far it feels much better, and my fuel trims are now +/- 5% down from +/- 15& or more
Attached Files
File Type: pdf VE Mod 1.pdf (116.9 KB, 4154 views)
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post #20 of 1713 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 16, 1:32 PM
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Chris
 
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Re: FITECH EFI TUNING tips, info sharing, ideas, settings, etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by OUTLAWD View Post
I have tweaked the idle setting to have 9-11 IAC counts in gear, off idle response seems improved. Also leaned out part throtle and idle a bit more

I logged some more miles, but noticed some of my fuel learns were maxed out, so I decided to modify the Cam VE surface based on the long term fuel adaptations.

What I did was find the "Cam4" VE surface that I was running, then find the 3D LT Fuel_1 Adapt surface that is populated from the fuel learn values. I interpolated the Fuel Learn Surface to match the breakpoints of the VE surface, then just multiplied the VE surface by the adaptation percentage. Areas of the Fuel Learn that are 100% either need no adjustment, or have no data to base an adjustment off of. I hand smoothed the surface in these areas with no data.

This should help speed up the learn process, as well as make the car a bit smoother when I transition to a part of the map that has not learned yet. So far it feels much better, and my fuel trims are now +/- 5% down from +/- 15& or more
Can you translate this please! LOL!

73 nova,3515#(all steel)406ci N/A, best 1/4,1.45 '60,6.75@100.48,10.6 @ 122.38, short shifting,NO tuning!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng86PsGUcTY
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post #21 of 1713 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 16, 9:50 PM
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Rich
 
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Re: FITECH EFI TUNING tips, info sharing, ideas, settings, etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by WHT/73 View Post
Can you translate this please! LOL!
He monkied with the settings...
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post #22 of 1713 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 16, 9:13 AM
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Re: FITECH EFI TUNING tips, info sharing, ideas, settings, etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HandOverFist View Post
He monkied with the settings...
What he said..haha.

Research speed density tuning with LTFT (Long term fuel trim)...

Basically choosing your cam (1-4) assigns a corresponding airflow that has been predetermined by FITech. This is like horse shoes and hand grenades here, close enough gets you there, because it is always running in closed loop and adjusting your fueling. You can monitor the corrections it is applying by the fuel trim, then once a fuel trim has been consistently applied in on area, it turns into a fuel learn.

This works fine, but when you happen to find yourself in an area where you haven't learned yet, you risk maxing out your fuel trim and suffering from a moment of poor drive ability.

Like I said, the VE surface assigned to the cam gets you close, but FITech has never had my engine on the dyno, so they don't know what my particular combo needs. Looking at where it was pulling a lot of fuel (100% fuel learn is no change, 70% is pulling 30% fuel from baseline), I looked at the VE surfaces for all the cams (1-4), and none seemed to fit the bill, so I multiplied the VE surface I was using, by the % the fuel learn had adapted to. So if I was pulling 30% fueling through fuel learn, I lowered the VE by 30% in that corresponding cell, so now my fuel trims should be close to 0%. I then had to smooth the areas out where I had not learned yet, si I wouldn't have any drastic transitions.

Is any of this needed, no...but being that I don;t have a carb anymore, I need to mess with something!

For the attached images, Blue means it is pulling fuel (upwards of 40%), red is adding fuel, and the target is orange. Basically a before and after of the fuel learn values. The blue region turned into a blue/green/yellow region. I am sure this process will take a couple iterations to get good, and I took a conservative first step, but ideally I'd like learn values within a couple % and trim values as close to 0 as possible.

OEMs generally run engines on a steady state dyno for hundreds of hours to generate these results, and while I don't have that luxury, or desire, I should be able to get it pretty close...
Attached Thumbnails
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post #23 of 1713 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 16, 10:22 AM Thread Starter
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Bob
 
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Thumbs up Re: FITECH EFI TUNING tips, info sharing, ideas, settings, etc...

Excellent info! Thanks for sharing.

VE = Volumetric Efficiency for those of us who are still dabbling in the basic settings.

If I ever get my transmission back, I may be able to do some datalogging and tuning too.

1971 Chevelle SS "439" 2.1 tons of fun...
11.31@117 w/4.10's, 4200+ stall, QFT SS-830 carb
11.72@115 w/3.90's, 3300 stall, and Fitech GoEFI4
11.51@116 w/3.90's, 3300 stall, and Holley Sniper EFI
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post #24 of 1713 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 16, 11:22 AM
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Ed
 
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Re: FITECH EFI TUNING tips, info sharing, ideas, settings, etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by OUTLAWD View Post
What he said..haha.

Research speed density tuning with LTFT (Long term fuel trim)...

Basically choosing your cam (1-4) assigns a corresponding airflow that has been predetermined by FITech. This is like horse shoes and hand grenades here, close enough gets you there, because it is always running in closed loop and adjusting your fueling. You can monitor the corrections it is applying by the fuel trim, then once a fuel trim has been consistently applied in on area, it turns into a fuel learn.

This works fine, but when you happen to find yourself in an area where you haven't learned yet, you risk maxing out your fuel trim and suffering from a moment of poor drive ability.

Like I said, the VE surface assigned to the cam gets you close, but FITech has never had my engine on the dyno, so they don't know what my particular combo needs. Looking at where it was pulling a lot of fuel (100% fuel learn is no change, 70% is pulling 30% fuel from baseline), I looked at the VE surfaces for all the cams (1-4), and none seemed to fit the bill, so I multiplied the VE surface I was using, by the % the fuel learn had adapted to. So if I was pulling 30% fueling through fuel learn, I lowered the VE by 30% in that corresponding cell, so now my fuel trims should be close to 0%. I then had to smooth the areas out where I had not learned yet, si I wouldn't have any drastic transitions.

Is any of this needed, no...but being that I don;t have a carb anymore, I need to mess with something!

For the attached images, Blue means it is pulling fuel (upwards of 40%), red is adding fuel, and the target is orange. Basically a before and after of the fuel learn values. The blue region turned into a blue/green/yellow region. I am sure this process will take a couple iterations to get good, and I took a conservative first step, but ideally I'd like learn values within a couple % and trim values as close to 0 as possible.

OEMs generally run engines on a steady state dyno for hundreds of hours to generate these results, and while I don't have that luxury, or desire, I should be able to get it pretty close...
This is great info, I like what you are doing. This would make a great way to test changes, after you make "your" tune where the changes are all close to 0, then say, you change fuel, or intake, or timing... you will see the effect easier from a standardized baseline.
Good information and good explanations so far, feel free to keep dumbing it down for us less familiar folk.
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1967 El Camino Malibu Deepwater Blue
ZZ4 350 FiTech 600 (In Progress), 700R4, JGC Steering, 1990s serpentine.
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post #25 of 1713 (permalink) Old Apr 25th, 16, 11:30 AM
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Re: FITECH EFI TUNING tips, info sharing, ideas, settings, etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioneer4x4 View Post
This is great info, I like what you are doing. This would make a great way to test changes, after you make "your" tune where the changes are all close to 0, then say, you change fuel, or intake, or timing... you will see the effect easier from a standardized baseline.
Good information and good explanations so far, feel free to keep dumbing it down for us less familiar folk.
Thanks. This is my first attempt at this, I am far more comfortable with a carburetor...

Although, I perhaps have a slight head start, as I am an engine development engineer by day.
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post #26 of 1713 (permalink) Old Apr 29th, 16, 7:45 PM
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Re: FITECH EFI TUNING tips, info sharing, ideas, settings, etc...

I'm here from the Corvette Forum where there are no tuning FiTech specialists over there. Everyone is looking for tuning help and there is too little.
I phoned and talked to Ken last week at FiTech and told him he needed a better manual with an extra couple hundred pages of tuning.
He said it's a work in progress. That means nothing coming down the pipeline in the near future.
Which is why I'm here. I have found this site to have the guys that are keen on setting up their EFI's as best as possible.

Here's what I have:

ENGINE: 496 Cu. In (427 stroked) Aluminum ZL-1 block.

FiTech Set-up: Go EFI 600

Fuel System: was FCC now Tanks Inc. w/Walbro 255lph in tank pump - just finishing set-up.

Engine Vacuum: full manifold not ported 11.5-12.5 psi.

Cam Setting: 4 was at 3 - not enough VE at 3 position. better at 4 but still need some more VE.

IAC steps: 6-10 at idle.

Timing Control: off for now - till I figure out how to tune this TBI.

IDLE: 900 rpms

Target Idle AFR: 13.80

Any Adjustments: IAC is right now but I fought with it for a while; Decel IAC was adjusted to -37.5; MAP fuel (I think - was adjusted down to 10 from 38.5 - eliminated the off idle surge at 1500 rpms when your foot is off the gas pedal.

Just finishing my gas tank install hopefully tonight or tomorrow.
I had the same problems as rel3rd (Bob) with my FCC. It keep failing on me constantly. Shipped it back - got it back a week later - installed - ran good for a day. Then it started to surge, backfire and fall on it's face. Sent them a video. Then a couple of days later sent them a data log. Then a few more conversations with FiTech. Finally they agreed to take my FCC back - still waiting for a RMA number which means they will accept my part and refund me.

Now I know they have had some problems with these. But as was mentioned earlier the ones that seem to be trouble free are the ones that don't scream out a lot of HP. If anybody is pushing over 450 hp and there FCC is working I would like to here about it. I did see that thread about the FCC.

Tonight all I have left to do is make a line from my steel fuel line by the engine to the throttle body about 2.5 ft. I'm going to practice my tube bending technique and build a steel line to the throttle body. If I fail this back to the soft hose.

I'm hoping after reading what Bob went through and how good it works now it will be the same for me as well. Fingers crossed. I will try and detail some of my high and low points on this install a little later. Hopefully it will help some of you guys.

More to come.

65-StingRay
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post #27 of 1713 (permalink) Old Apr 29th, 16, 9:16 PM
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Chris
 
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Re: FITECH EFI TUNING tips, info sharing, ideas, settings, etc...

Welcome Wayne.

Rather that doing the steel line (stainless is recommended), have you considered just doing PTFE?

BTW, I may be asking you a lot of questions when I finally get my EFI back from FiTech since you're the only one in Edmonton that has installed one so far, that I know of.

1971 Chevelle SS454 4 speed, 3.31 Posi

Youtube Channel. https://www.youtube.com/user/SS454LS6
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post #28 of 1713 (permalink) Old Apr 30th, 16, 11:39 AM
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Wayne
 
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Re: FITECH EFI TUNING tips, info sharing, ideas, settings, etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by -SS454- View Post
Welcome Wayne.

Rather that doing the steel line (stainless is recommended), have you considered just doing PTFE?

BTW, I may be asking you a lot of questions when I finally get my EFI back from FiTech since you're the only one in Edmonton that has installed one so far, that I know of.
Chris, I did think of using a soft line of some kind. But I have the 3/8'' steel line at home already so I thought I would work on my bending technique. Like last night after work went into the garage and started bending up the 3/8''. Everything went well until the last bend and she kinked on me after I let the bender slip it's position on the last 90*. So today back to Napa to pick up a little more tubing and go and bend the tubing correctly this time.

I have a lot of learning to do on the efi system. It's not like there is a book out there that you can look at. Something like my Holley book for tuning carbs. I need one for efi.
I could have my engine dyno-tuned but that's way to expensive. Although, Roger at Custom Automotive Specialties said he could do it for me. I will try on my own till I fail or make it happen.

Chris do you ever go to any cruise nights in Edmonton: the Wendy's in Millwoods on Wednesdays or the A&W on 137ave on Thursday night or the west end. Let me know maybe we can hook up one time. I usually go the the Wendy's on Wednesday nights.

65-StingRay
Wayne
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post #29 of 1713 (permalink) Old Apr 30th, 16, 3:52 PM Thread Starter
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Re: FITECH EFI TUNING tips, info sharing, ideas, settings, etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by OUTLAWD View Post
Thanks. This is my first attempt at this, I am far more comfortable with a carburetor...

Although, I perhaps have a slight head start, as I am an engine development engineer by day.
Question for anyone using the EFI4 setup....

Have any of you been able to see colored graphs like above??

I can only see Excel file, and that's all but worthless to me...

1971 Chevelle SS "439" 2.1 tons of fun...
11.31@117 w/4.10's, 4200+ stall, QFT SS-830 carb
11.72@115 w/3.90's, 3300 stall, and Fitech GoEFI4
11.51@116 w/3.90's, 3300 stall, and Holley Sniper EFI
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post #30 of 1713 (permalink) Old Apr 30th, 16, 3:56 PM Thread Starter
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Bob
 
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Location: Middle River, MD
Posts: 4,240
Re: FITECH EFI TUNING tips, info sharing, ideas, settings, etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by OUTLAWD View Post
I have tweaked the idle setting to have 9-11 IAC counts in gear, off idle response seems improved. Also leaned out part throtle and idle a bit more

I logged some more miles, but noticed some of my fuel learns were maxed out, so I decided to modify the Cam VE surface based on the long term fuel adaptations.

What I did was find the "Cam4" VE surface that I was running, then find the 3D LT Fuel_1 Adapt surface that is populated from the fuel learn values. I interpolated the Fuel Learn Surface to match the breakpoints of the VE surface, then just multiplied the VE surface by the adaptation percentage. Areas of the Fuel Learn that are 100% either need no adjustment, or have no data to base an adjustment off of. I hand smoothed the surface in these areas with no data.

This should help speed up the learn process, as well as make the car a bit smoother when I transition to a part of the map that has not learned yet. So far it feels much better, and my fuel trims are now +/- 5% down from +/- 15& or more
Can you explain how you actually get to these screens? I have to jump through a half dozen hoops just to see an Excel file, and then there's nothing I can do but view a datalog in Excel...no graphs, no options to tune, or modify anything that I can see....

1971 Chevelle SS "439" 2.1 tons of fun...
11.31@117 w/4.10's, 4200+ stall, QFT SS-830 carb
11.72@115 w/3.90's, 3300 stall, and Fitech GoEFI4
11.51@116 w/3.90's, 3300 stall, and Holley Sniper EFI
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