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ls1 or 454??

22K views 37 replies 12 participants last post by  tunedbytad 
#1 ·
hey guys. i have a 65 el camino with a 454. its currently stock bore. i have a turbo 400 tranny and a ford 9" rear end.
i was curious if i could make a nice pro-touring car out of the elky with this current engine setup or whether id be better off selling the 454 for an ls1. from what i've gathered, the 454 is more of a drag racing engine where ls1's tend to be more for touring. i also heard ls1's run through spark plugs if they're used in street cars because they're designed to be in high rpm all the time. i was also curious what kind of good aftermarket suspension kits they had for a 65 elky for road-racing.
whats a good trans/rearend/engine setup for high speeds? like the corvette for instance: has a bitchen top speed. does anyone know how possible and costly it is to make a 65 elky be able to keep up with that(or close) and what parts i should swap from my current setup for other parts? all this given the work is done by me.

thx guys. im pretty knew to the whole pro-touring concept. i've just recently been looking into European touring cars and what not. i want a cheaper somewhat lesser version of the corvette with a 65 elky body.
 
#30 ·
thx guys for the input. i was talking to my uncle(who sold me the car) about it. he said he likes how the ls is a defined motor, not just some big hairy beast like the 454. he said he had a 64 buick skylark with a 383 and he said he could carve corners like no ones business. we were also talking about "build of the day" haha. he said he knows exactly what im going through. making up your mind before going through with the project can be hard as hell (i know this now) when you see all the sick builds from each build type. Seeing the chicayne/bisquick makes we want to slam a 62 impala or biscanye and pimp it out. then i look at some of the chevelles and camaros that have ls engines in them and are carving corners on a track which also really appeals to me(loved gran tourismo game). I think overall though my best bet is to stick with the 454. I was kickin some rox over a couple other options i would have from them and their car lot. lol. a 67 mustang sedan with a built 460? a 62 comet s22 with a super built roller 302? A ford falcon with a mounted 460? 79 el camino with a 350? my other uncle has a full caged 64 skylark with a built to the hilt 455 and some like 12 or 14 wides in the back. he has a 70 chevelle with the stock paint. theirs also a mustang he has covered in his garage that's way out of my reach but its setup pro-touring status. the car isn't finished yet but has like 25k into it and thats rolling a barely built 351. The car has sooo much money into the chasses/suspension/body.. the paint on this thing was like 7k and it's a solid color...
but yeah. they have to many damn cars and they kick to many ideas my way so iv'e had the hardest time deciding. overall though the 65 elky w/ the 454 is my best bet. i mean ive told you all the stuff it has in it and it'd take me a looooong time to buy all that stuff for another car if chose something else. im just going to stick with the 454 elky and work on makeing the interior exterior nice. i have about 3 months before i can drive so ima completely tear out the seats/interior and do a custom dash and sand and paint the whole body. i want to carpet the bed and build a sub box to house three 12" subwoofers and then buy a waterproof snugtop type thing to keep the carpet / speakers out of the elements. does anyone know what a good wood is to use for the dash? i saw them use some thin wood to make a full custom dash on one of the pimp my hot rod type tv shows. and also a company that makes a nice sheetmetal or fiberglass(whatever its made of) snugtop that can keep the subs and stuff i have in the bed protected from the elements?
my uncle told me the cars been converted to disk brakes and has all new suspension so really i all i have to do is what i just said... until my engine blows and i buy a weiand 177 and make it a 496 :D
**ALSO? what would you think be good for transmission? should i stick with the trubo 400 and ratchet shifter or should i switch to a manual trans so i can have a 5 or 6 speed and have a higher top speed and better overall control of the car???

Thanks so much guys. I love these forums because i can talk to guys who actually understand and have experience and probly have been through what i'm going through(at 17) with the build of the day stuff. THANKS!!!
 
#31 ·
**ALSO? what would you think be good for transmission? should i stick with the trubo 400 and ratchet shifter or should i switch to a manual trans so i can have a 5 or 6 speed and have a higher top speed and better overall control of the car???
ProTouring with and Auto ???
I have done it and it rules!

built 4l60E that holds 2nd
OR
built 200R4 that holds 2nd

If you can lock it in second you will have really good control of the car from 0 MPH to 70-90 depending on the motors rev capability and gearing / tire size.
The 4l60E and 200R4 both have overdrive and work great for street duty with a 3.73-4.10 depending on rear tire size.

Both are pricey builds and I wouldnt trust just any local builder like I would with a th400 or Glide.
The 4L60E is the least expensive of the two to build but still pricey
The 4L60E has really nice electronic controls 94 andup and esp with 2000' & up PCMS
The 4L60E will hold about 700flywheel nicley built
The 4L60E has a less desirable gearing spread and OD for lower HP setups and is better for less than 500wheel cars with less power to weight ratios.

The 200R4 is the most expensive of any GM auto I know of to fully build
The 200R4 is difficult to taylor the shift points ect vs the 4l60E
The 200R4 will hold over 1200 flywheel exceptionally built
The 200R4 has a desirable close gearing spread and long legged OD for higger HP and is better for more than 500wheel cars
I personly know a guy who has a 64' ElCo w/ 660+RW BBC with a 200R4 drives across OC and LA county to the track lays down 10s and drives home with ok MPG on his 200R4.

I will have a nice glide that will hold 600fly for sale soon sine I'm building a pricey 200R4 for our ElCo.
 
#33 ·
thx for that info. ill probly go with the 4l60e due to the fact that its cheaper and i wont see more than 600 rwhp. when i rebuild my engine im going to make it a 496 stroker, slap on some aluminum heads, a weiand 177 supercharger.. so i'll be lookin at about id say 550 rwhp naturally asperated and ill have maybe a 100 shot as a natural cooler for the supercharger. :D

btw i was lookin at some of ur pics or ur 67 elky. beautiful car man. 67 is my favorite year, 65 is my second. i have a 65 so i dont see what the point of digging around is.. less one landed in my lap or something. great looking car though. love the stance. those were the polished torque thrust rims i think? i have the same ones on my elky but mines are the torque thrust d. they have a gray coating on the petals. mines also flat black primered haha. you got bigger rims/wheels though - g-machinish. im more lower stance with slicks n skinnies for drag racing. 5 stars for sure though on your car man. how much $ you put into it since the "striped years" pics??
 
#32 ·
tunedbytad said:
Did you got to the car show on Main street @ the HB pier this year?
There were several LS swap cars there.
actually i didnt get down there this year. all the events ive been to (goodguys, cruisin for a cure, labor day cruise) have had the same stock looking cars. even my wife comments on this. plenty of cool other cars, but pretty much stock chevelles.

Tim
 
#37 ·
Your elky is badass.
 
#35 ·
Sounds like a good plan for you sticking with the BB. Here how I am looking at it for me. I am going to pull my 454 just as soon as I figure a way to afford a crate LS3. Love my BB but kinda tired of it so it is going in my truck for a while. My car is truely a daily driver with Edelbrock Pro Flo fuel injection and a 4l80e. Drives really well, but gets 11mpg average. High 17 to 18 on the highway, but low is about 6mpg when really romping on it. My motor has about 200,000 on it now so I will have to rebuild it again or go with something new. 400lbs of the front of my car and better gas milage appeals to me since my car is mostly pro-touring at this point.
If you are going to push 600hp you may want to reconsider the 4l60e. Played that game with a couple of 700r4's and got tired of the 3-4 clutches giving up every 40,000 miles. Plus, I hated the low first gear and huge drop to second with the torque of my big block. I didn't know how much I missed the nice even spacing of my old TH350 until I built my 4l80e.
Good luck and keep us posted
 
#36 ·
Thanks a lot guys. will do. ima get some pics posted as soon as i can so you can see what im startin with.
 
#38 ·
those were the polished torque thrust rims i think?
18x8 Front 18x11 Rear Torque Thrust II customs
look great to my eye
but the 18's Messed UP the steering geometery with the Superior 2" drop spindles and stock arms. BAD BAD BAD.


how much $ you put into it since the "striped years" pics??
If I told you I would have to kill you... haha ha LOL
no really
Rims, Tires, AFX, SCNC stage II+, helllwig bar, $300junk yard HB, Kore3 C5 brakes, free LS1 rear brakes, craigslist stereo upgrades, $30 X2 junk yard seats, Edelbrock 4 link, GM serpentine kit, new carpet, pricey prototype PCV upgrades shhhh...
Now add in the on deck mods in my sig
On Deck: 200r4 w/gauges, 3K Edge TC, oil cooler, DJWideBand, 12 Bolt w/ 4.10s

If you are going to push 600hp you may want to reconsider the 4l60e. Played that game with a couple of 700r4's and got tired of the 3-4 clutches giving up every 40,000 miles.
If you build a 4L60E in the HiHP range the pressure need to be 100+psi @ idle and 270+psi in Rev / WOT.
Or it will burn up parts

40,000 miles is like 3-4 years on a clutch pack in a 600HP car! Sounds good to me.
I use the Alto 9-pack commercial clutches that are under $40 some times $25 on sale.
They last more than 4 years for me.
 
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