Valve Spring Coil Bind--How do you check it? - Chevelle Tech
Engine AdvertisementGeneral Engine Discussion.

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old Sep 3rd, 04, 12:17 AM Thread Starter
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Alhambra, CA
Posts: 584
Post

I have tried to figure this out and keep getting different methods. I want to check the coil bind on my springs with a feeler gauge (I don't want to hassle with pulling them off and it's got to be relatively accurate while on the heads). Do I just check between one coil or do I check all of them and add it up? Do I add in lash (this is a solid roller)? Can somebody clarify this for me!!??

Thanks!

Ben
ben70 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old Sep 3rd, 04, 1:43 AM
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: eureka, ca.
Posts: 668
Post

With valve fully opened there should be a minumum of .060 between coils of inner and outer springs. If clearance is less will need to change retainer or the valve to gain more installed height, or change to a spring that will acccommodate more lift.

73'Camaro 498ci BBC. Best ET 10.11-9/23/07. http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...4/IMG_0556.jpg
blazerbob is offline  
post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old Sep 3rd, 04, 1:44 AM
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: eureka, ca.
Posts: 668
Post


73'Camaro 498ci BBC. Best ET 10.11-9/23/07. http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...4/IMG_0556.jpg
blazerbob is offline  
post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old Sep 3rd, 04, 2:56 AM
Lifetime Premium Member
Mike
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Mendocino County, Northern CA
Posts: 12,544
Post

Ben,
You need to take at least one spring off to check coil bind.
It is the total amount the spring will move from full open to where the spring binds & this cannot be measured with feeler gauges.
You will find that the springs will usually not have any where near an equal amount of space between different coils.
Don't forget that most cams are dual pattern & the lift may be different between intake & exhaust
You could probably do it with a dial indicator & a spring removal tool on the engine but it isn't going to be real easy especially with roller springs
Once the spring is off you can check it in a vise if you don't have access to a spring tester.

Mike (Wolfplace)
VISIT US AT
+4axis CNC block machining+
================================
Welcome to the internet,,, "Experts" made daily
===
"Life is tough.,, Life is even tougher if you're stupid."
----John Wayne----

Wolfplace is offline  
post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old Sep 3rd, 04, 4:03 PM Thread Starter
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Alhambra, CA
Posts: 584
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by Wolfplace:
Ben,
You need to take at least one spring off to check coil bind.
It is the total amount the spring will move from full open to where the spring binds & this cannot be measured with feeler gauges.
You will find that the springs will usually not have any where near an equal amount of space between different coils.
Don't forget that most cams are dual pattern & the lift may be different between intake & exhaust
You could probably do it with a dial indicator & a spring removal tool on the engine but it isn't going to be real easy especially with roller springs
Once the spring is off you can check it in a vise if you don't have access to a spring tester.
AAwww Mike. I was afraid you'd say that. I've got 315cc AFRs on my 540. The springs are supposedly their Roller Springs (#8003) good up to .750 lift. My cam only goes to .666 lift. I just want to be safe before I fire that monster up.

Ben
ben70 is offline  
post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old Sep 3rd, 04, 8:19 PM
Lifetime Premium Member
Mike
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Mendocino County, Northern CA
Posts: 12,544
Post

Ben,
With the 8003 spring you will not have a coil bind issue.
What is the cam, that sounds like a Comp street roller & if it is & you didn't order it on a billet you need to lower the spring pressure a bunch or you will kill it

Mike (Wolfplace)
VISIT US AT
+4axis CNC block machining+
================================
Welcome to the internet,,, "Experts" made daily
===
"Life is tough.,, Life is even tougher if you're stupid."
----John Wayne----

Wolfplace is offline  
post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old Sep 3rd, 04, 9:30 PM
Lifetime Premium Member
John
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Nanimo, B.C. Canada
Posts: 545
Send a message via Skype™ to TD509EFI
Post

Ben,

I checked my AFR 315's (after the machine shop checked them) with the valve train set up. Minimum distance was on the exhaust damper springs, had 0.80 minimum clearance with a .702 lift cam. The inner and outer springs had a lot more, about .125" min.

As usual, Mike is dead on with the springs. My 315's did have one shim under each spring, I think it was 0.015", only lowerewd the spring pressure a little over 5lbs. You WILL have to change the springs, I checked with Comp before deciding to go with a billet roller. Their street roller wont handle the AFR spring pressures.

John
TD509EFI is offline  
post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old Sep 3rd, 04, 10:25 PM Thread Starter
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Alhambra, CA
Posts: 584
Post

Okay, here's the cam:

Comp Cams Xtreme Energy Solid Roller
Part Number 11-773-8
Advertised duration: 292/298
Duration @.050 254/260
Lift: .660/.666

Springs: 929-16 (1.535 spring) or 939-16
Dual spring w/ damper
Seat: 150@1.9
Open: 434@1.23
Rate: 437
Bind: 1.18

Am I better off going with the Comp Springs? Do I need different retainers?
Thanks!

Ben
ben70 is offline  
post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old Sep 3rd, 04, 11:39 PM
Lifetime Premium Member
Mike
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Mendocino County, Northern CA
Posts: 12,544
Post

The -8 is a cast billet roller & you don't want to run over about 475 open.
This is why I never run anything but a Billet solid roller cam.
I don't recall the installed height of the AFR setup but I think it is too tall for the Comp spring & I would prefer slightly more open pressure than the Comp spring has.
Something like 160/450-475 should work pretty good.
You have to remember that you will only have about .640 net lift after lash, deflection & due to the geometry of the goofy pushrod angles in a rat so set the open pressure at about .650 lift.
Try the 953-16 Comp spring & try to get it to 1.9-1.95 installed & it should work good.
Not sure if it will work with your retainers but the 953 takes a 741 retainer which has a 1.115 step. You can measure yours to see if they will work.
Also,,, you want to run the GM melonized distributor gear with this cam.

Mike (Wolfplace)
VISIT US AT
+4axis CNC block machining+
================================
Welcome to the internet,,, "Experts" made daily
===
"Life is tough.,, Life is even tougher if you're stupid."
----John Wayne----

Wolfplace is offline  
post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old Sep 4th, 04, 12:05 AM Thread Starter
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Alhambra, CA
Posts: 584
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by Wolfplace:
The -8 is a cast billet roller & you don't want to run over about 475 open.
This is why I never run anything but a Billet solid roller cam.
I don't recall the installed height of the AFR setup but I think it is too tall for the Comp spring & I would prefer slightly more open pressure than the Comp spring has.
Something like 160/450-475 should work pretty good.
You have to remember that you will only have about .640 net lift after lash, deflection & due to the geometry of the goofy pushrod angles in a rat so set the open pressure at about .650 lift.
Try the 953-16 Comp spring & try to get it to 1.9-1.95 installed & it should work good.
Not sure if it will work with your retainers but the 953 takes a 741 retainer which has a 1.115 step. You can measure yours to see if they will work.
Also,,, you want to run the GM melonized distributor gear with this cam.
Mike,

Thanks. I'll check out those springs. Changing springs. More fun for me! [img]graemlins/hurray.gif[/img]

Ben
ben70 is offline  
post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old Sep 4th, 04, 3:44 AM
Senior Tech Team
 
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Frogmorton, The Shire
Posts: 3,752
Post

It is surprisingly easy with the right tool. The Moroso spring compresser work great.

Pat Kelley
66 El Camino, daily driver
Sold 67 El Camino, Bracket car (7.33, 93.60, 1.61 60', 1/8) (1.53 60', 7.26 660', 11.50, 115.08, 1/4 mile) 355 powered
Pat's Page (Dynamic CR Calculator, car specs)
Shop equip for sale
Pat Kelley is offline  
post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old Sep 4th, 04, 11:35 AM Thread Starter
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Alhambra, CA
Posts: 584
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by Pat Kelley:
It is surprisingly easy with the right tool. The Moroso spring compresser work great.
Good to hear. That was the tool I was looking at getting to do the job. Thanks.

Ben
ben70 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Chevelle Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address. Note, you will be sent a confirmation request to this address.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome