the '416' head thread - Chevelle Tech

Engine AdvertisementGeneral Engine Discussion.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 80 (permalink) Old May 12th, 10, 1:50 PM Thread Starter
Tech Team
Scott
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mooresville NC
Posts: 640
the '416' head thread

Wow definitely some interest and difference of opinions on the ole 305 HO heads! The timing couldnt be more perfect for this experiment, as im building a LOW buck smallblock for project 'bottom dollar'- a 75 Monza coupe drag car for the family, buddies and myself to thrash on when we feel the need...... and plan to run a set of factory heads on it.
I am a BIG fan of the vortec heads, but theres been some talk about these 416 castings working very well with minimal work, and those small chambers would really boost compression too!
I still say vortec is the way to go, as they kick butt right out of the box (and REALLY wake up with a quick exhaust port job) but since I have an old set of 416s in the corner and no vortecs, lets see what happens!
Follow along as the work begins

"You boys better hold on 'cuz I'm gonna hafta stand on it." - old man, Stroker Ace

Big Orange 66 cutlass
A-body Olds, chevelle drivetrain.
street/strip cruiser
pump gas SFT 496,
RHS 360s, 830 carb
TH400, 3800, 3.73
3600+lbs
all motor, no cage, brake, box, spool or trailer.
1.55/6.7/103/3000DA

Vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGpSAb32NEE
big_orange is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 80 (permalink) Old May 12th, 10, 2:02 PM Thread Starter
Tech Team
Scott
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mooresville NC
Posts: 640
Re: the '416' head thread

FLOW NUMBERS!
stock 416s, right off the motor, untouched. tested at 28" on superflow SF600 bench, 4.06 bore. clay radius @ intake port, no pipe on exhaust.

IN EX

.1- 49/41
.2- 103/82
.3- 153/105
.4- 180/115
.5- 184/118
.6- 185/120

Obviously, if you have a good used set of vortecs, use them, as they flow approx 220/135 in stock form, and 225/170 with a quick fluff n buff.
However, before spending 550-600 a pair for new vortecs, you might be better off getting a set of reworked 416s....im feeling confident that these babys will match the vortecs easily with a 1.94 valve and some bowl and chamber work!!!!

"You boys better hold on 'cuz I'm gonna hafta stand on it." - old man, Stroker Ace

Big Orange 66 cutlass
A-body Olds, chevelle drivetrain.
street/strip cruiser
pump gas SFT 496,
RHS 360s, 830 carb
TH400, 3800, 3.73
3600+lbs
all motor, no cage, brake, box, spool or trailer.
1.55/6.7/103/3000DA

Vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGpSAb32NEE
big_orange is offline  
post #3 of 80 (permalink) Old May 12th, 10, 3:31 PM
Lifetime Premium Member
George
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lakewood, WA
Posts: 11,122
Re: the '416' head thread

this could get interesting. Thanks for your work here

George Kettler
o 70 Elky 496 #074 AL heads with porting, 10.3:1 CR, Straub HR 237/241* .617/.570 107 race weight should be 3895#. 3500 or better stall, 3.90s
o 68 Vette 427/M-20/3.36 23 year owner
http://public.fotki.com/kettbo/gearhead/
o 68 Camaro Vert 327 project, painted, assembly stage http://www.camaros.net/forums/showth...183654&page=55
kettbo is offline  
post #4 of 80 (permalink) Old May 12th, 10, 3:37 PM
Senior Tech Team
jeff
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: yukon ok.
Posts: 3,148
Re: the '416' head thread

What did the 416 have in it as far as the intake valve diameter...
if it is 1.84 be nice to see what you get with a bowl cleanup and the stock valve
jeff swisher is offline  
post #5 of 80 (permalink) Old May 12th, 10, 3:49 PM
Lifetime Premium Member
Rich
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 4,773
Re: the '416' head thread

Thanks, Scott for starting this thread- The Vortec one really got hijacked and I'm a big part of the blame. Like I said, the low-budget solution for a 283 buildup made either 416's or 601's a no-brainer (good thing, I'm not so smart sometimes...) My option was to use the double humps still sitting on my 327; but even the 64 cc's were to big and the compression would drop. Likewise, anything bigger than a 1.94" valve wouldn't fit the small bore. Mine are done 1.94"/1.50".

Rich

---1965 Malibu SS Ragtop 283/416 heads/700r4
---2009 Corvette Coupe

"Whatever it is, I'm against it." --Groucho Marx
richietables is offline  
post #6 of 80 (permalink) Old May 12th, 10, 3:52 PM
Senior Tech Team
jeff
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: yukon ok.
Posts: 3,148
Re: the '416' head thread

here are some numbers i got with a 601 head my first set
stock valves 1.84 & 1.50's and stock factory valve job just blending the bowls and lapping the valves,and some chamber work
The throats were opened up to .85% on this heads
I will be curious as to how the 416 heads do ...I need to finish the 1.94-1.60 "601" castings i am working on..did not plan to flow them but i could.

IN EX

.1-----
.2-116/95
.3-166/127
.4-199/159
.5-208/171
.6-211/174
jeff swisher is offline  
post #7 of 80 (permalink) Old May 12th, 10, 5:38 PM
Team Member
Jake
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 7,536
Re: the '416' head thread

This is going to be cool. Looks like the baseline has been established.

1972 Malibu Sport Coupe - Victory Red on Black - 350/TH350

I do all my own stunts.
Highway Star is offline  
post #8 of 80 (permalink) Old May 12th, 10, 6:12 PM
Gold Founding Member
"Wild Bill"
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Marietta, GA 30066
Posts: 26,577
Send a message via AIM to BillsCamino
Re: the '416' head thread

Kinda sounds a lot like the 283 I recently built...

1972 Chevelle SS 502 HO w/M22

Team Chevelle #613
ACES #3920
CAMI (Ireland) #14
CanAm Chevelles #136
Carolina Chevelles #185
Heart Of Dixie #231
Long Island Chevelles #113


Watch the nightly news?? Black Crime Matters
BillsCamino is offline  
post #9 of 80 (permalink) Old May 12th, 10, 6:25 PM Thread Starter
Tech Team
Scott
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mooresville NC
Posts: 640
Re: the '416' head thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff swisher View Post
What did the 416 have in it as far as the intake valve diameter...
if it is 1.84 be nice to see what you get with a bowl cleanup and the stock valve
these had the stock 1.84/1.5 valves, and that is exactly what the plan is..to see what they will go to without a bigger valve

the intake throats are already huge, and theres not much room for a nice cut below the 45 on the seat. Ive got some tricks up the old sleeve though!

Quote:
Originally Posted by richietables View Post
Thanks, Scott for starting this thread- The Vortec one really got hijacked and I'm a big part of the blame. Like I said, the low-budget solution for a 283 buildup made either 416's or 601's a no-brainer (good thing, I'm not so smart sometimes...) My option was to use the double humps still sitting on my 327; but even the 64 cc's were to big and the compression would drop. Likewise, anything bigger than a 1.94" valve wouldn't fit the small bore. Mine are done 1.94"/1.50".
This whole thing started when Jake (highway star) mentioned something about small chamber heads and i told him the vortecs are small-ish just like 305 heads. Talk about foot-in-mouth when I actually cc'd one of these 416s WOW! Had NO idea!
I love them small inch smallblocks, but never realized there was a halfway decent budget factory head with a small enough chamber to make any compression. These things would be an absolute A+ on a little 283!!!
Im starting to wonder about stealing the crank out of the monza's original 262 v8 and see what combination I can come up with for stock pistons and rod lengths.....3.1 stroke and 4" bore.....hello!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff swisher View Post
here are some numbers i got with a 601 head my first set
stock valves 1.84 & 1.50's and stock factory valve job just blending the bowls and lapping the valves,and some chamber work
The throats were opened up to .85% on this heads
I will be curious as to how the 416 heads do ...I need to finish the 1.94-1.60 "601" castings i am working on..did not plan to flow them but i could.

IN EX

.1-----
.2-116/95
.3-166/127
.4-199/159
.5-208/171
.6-211/174
those are great numbers especially for a 1.84 valve!

"You boys better hold on 'cuz I'm gonna hafta stand on it." - old man, Stroker Ace

Big Orange 66 cutlass
A-body Olds, chevelle drivetrain.
street/strip cruiser
pump gas SFT 496,
RHS 360s, 830 carb
TH400, 3800, 3.73
3600+lbs
all motor, no cage, brake, box, spool or trailer.
1.55/6.7/103/3000DA

Vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGpSAb32NEE
big_orange is offline  
post #10 of 80 (permalink) Old May 12th, 10, 6:51 PM
Team Member
Jake
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 7,536
Re: the '416' head thread

You sound like you know what you're doing with these heads. You're going to find out that they will run wild on a 283, but they'll work and work WELL on even a 350. Keep those vortec numbers handy.

1972 Malibu Sport Coupe - Victory Red on Black - 350/TH350

I do all my own stunts.

Last edited by Highway Star; May 12th, 10 at 10:14 PM.
Highway Star is offline  
post #11 of 80 (permalink) Old May 12th, 10, 10:13 PM
Tech Team
jesse
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: flagstaff,az
Posts: 190
Re: the '416' head thread

Whats the biggest cam you can use with these heads on a 350 ?
ls71chevelle is offline  
post #12 of 80 (permalink) Old May 12th, 10, 10:19 PM
Team Member
Jake
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 7,536
Re: the '416' head thread

I think it has yet to be determined...I'm running a 284, a bud is running a 292, and my buddy Jeff is going to be running one bigger than that here soon enough.

1972 Malibu Sport Coupe - Victory Red on Black - 350/TH350

I do all my own stunts.
Highway Star is offline  
post #13 of 80 (permalink) Old May 13th, 10, 1:15 AM
Senior Tech Team
jeff
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: yukon ok.
Posts: 3,148
Re: the '416' head thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ls71chevelle View Post
Whats the biggest cam you can use with these heads on a 350 ?
that all depends on the retainer to guide seal clearance..what springs
but i have clearanced some that went over .650" more than you need for a street car..

i have checked some stock ones with the good umbrella seals and stock retainers and .450" is getting close...so dont just pick some up and think a spring change and you get to run the .480 lift cam cause you may get in trouble

i felt that the flow i got from the 1.84 valve was crap on my first head
but there was still that big lump below the intake valve on the long side
I did remove some of it to create the swirl ramp effect...
I had a few tricks up my sleve also,, and Highwaystar got some of them on his 601's

I kicked the chamber out around the exaust valve on 1 pair i play with quite far almost to the 4" bore size like i used to do on the old double humps with the 1.60 valves and it did not pick up any flow anywhere

i can't wait to see some of your tricks Big Orange
jeff swisher is offline  
post #14 of 80 (permalink) Old May 13th, 10, 1:20 AM
Senior Tech Team
jeff
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: yukon ok.
Posts: 3,148
Re: the '416' head thread

Have ran that old crane 518-536 on a 106 with the 601 heads but lost some lobes,,before i found out about the zddp issues.

next up is the same grind but single pattern .536-.536 and the duration at .050 on this particular grind is 252 at .050...at least that is what is written on the master lobe...will be running it on a 106lsa
have not decided on lifters yet...old style or EDM

daily driver of course
jeff swisher is offline  
post #15 of 80 (permalink) Old May 13th, 10, 12:59 PM
Lifetime Premium Member
George
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lakewood, WA
Posts: 11,122
Re: the '416' head thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ls71chevelle View Post
Whats the biggest cam you can use with these heads on a 350 ?
Biggest is not best.

I bought a set of 416s from a pal that were off an eBay ad. The 416's chambers were too small for his use. The heads came with 2.02/1.60 SS valves, .510" springs, etc. I removed the big chamber bathtub heads from my smogger dished-piston 350, on with the 416s. Huge difference going from around 8:1 CR to 10:1 CR . Unknown small cam in there but in 30+ years of working on my stuff and helping others with theirs, this is the biggest night and day upgrade EVER for a street deal.

Sometime back when I upgraded to mild 454 power, I sold the heads to Seattle youngster Chad. They went onto his flattop shortblock (around 11:1 CR) with a cam like a 60103 Voodoo I had ground locally by Delta on a 112 LSA. Full wt, 2800-3000 stall, 3.73 gears, DRs, Chad has run 13.1s at Bremerton. Some improvement available in this combo too. Torquey engine for sure.

George Kettler
o 70 Elky 496 #074 AL heads with porting, 10.3:1 CR, Straub HR 237/241* .617/.570 107 race weight should be 3895#. 3500 or better stall, 3.90s
o 68 Vette 427/M-20/3.36 23 year owner
http://public.fotki.com/kettbo/gearhead/
o 68 Camaro Vert 327 project, painted, assembly stage http://www.camaros.net/forums/showth...183654&page=55
kettbo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Chevelle Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address. Note, you will be sent a confirmation request to this address.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome