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post #31 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 11th, 08, 2:39 PM
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Re: best off shelf motor oil with zinc content

There was an ad in Old Cars Weekly for additive called ZDDP that would bring your favorite oil up to or above SF standards of old.Cost was about $10.
LOTS of info/facts written on this subject on TurboBuick.Com Forums.Richard Clark owns a dozen or so Grand Nationals, and is the man behind this additive.Sorry for the cuss words.
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post #32 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 08, 10:40 PM
 
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Re: best off shelf motor oil with zinc content

you shouldn't add additives to your oil whether it is a zinc/phosphorus or an stabilizer. Let the chemist do their job. The American Petroleum institute (API) has mandated that CJ-4 oils contain less than 1200ppm even though the antiwear level is high for Rotella, diesel engine oil formulations are different than engine oils for gasoline or alcohol-fueled performance engines. The current GF-4 oils be within 600-800ppm while GF-3 was limited to 1000ppm.

If you are doing break in or have a wild cam you can use.
Pennzoil Racing Engine Oils (conventional engine oils) = 1800 ppm
Q Racing Engine Oils (special synthetic engine oils) = 1800 ppm

Since the racing oils are not for on road use they can have a higher zinc/phosphorus level. Remember don't try to play chemist with your oil.
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post #33 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 08, 10:43 PM
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Re: best off shelf motor oil with zinc content

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Originally Posted by broman78 View Post
Remember don't try to play chemist with your oil.
Somebody has to, so it might as well be the guys on this website. It wouild be nice if oil was what it used to be.
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post #34 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 08, 10:58 PM
 
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Re: best off shelf motor oil with zinc content

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Somebody has to, so it might as well be the guys on this website. It wouild be nice if oil was what it used to be.
Interesting that you said that, If people would do more research and not try to make your own sweep the kitchen oil people may not encounter as much flat tap cam wear. Granted you have to assume the engine builder did everything correct on his part. There are also a lot of variables to be accounted for. Oils of the past were alright but today your have catalytic converter and O2 sensors and and if you have a high zinc/phosphorus the ash will burn and get onto your sensors and cause premature failure. If oils of the past were so good why don't new performance cars or new cars come with straight 30 weight oil? The oils have matured into a better product with the addition of new technologies.
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post #35 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 08, 11:27 PM
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Re: best off shelf motor oil with zinc content

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Interesting that you said that, If people would do more research and not try to make your own sweep the kitchen oil people may not encounter as much flat tap cam wear. Granted you have to assume the engine builder did everything correct on his part. There are also a lot of variables to be accounted for. Oils of the past were alright but today your have catalytic converter and O2 sensors and and if you have a high zinc/phosphorus the ash will burn and get onto your sensors and cause premature failure. If oils of the past were so good why don't new performance cars or new cars come with straight 30 weight oil? The oils have matured into a better product with the addition of new technologies.
But, Mr. 2 posts, this is not 2008 technology cars we're using here on team Chevelle. It's 1960's flat tappet cam technology, which needs 1960's additive levels. Does your local parts store stock Catalytic converters for your 1968 Chevelle?? An O2 sensor for your 1971 Big Block

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post #36 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 08, 11:28 PM
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Re: best off shelf motor oil with zinc content

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Originally Posted by broman78 View Post
If oils of the past were so good why don't new performance cars or new cars come with straight 30 weight oil? .
By all means, throw a red herring into it. Multi viscosity oil has been around since at least the 1960s, when oil still had the good wear additives, so your reference to 30W is meaningless.

If the EPA didn't remove the anti wear additives, the guys here wouldn't have had to do all their research with oil samples being tested. Do some reading. They know more than you realize.
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post #37 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 14th, 08, 7:13 AM
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Re: best off shelf motor oil with zinc content

Although this is not a shelf oil and Rotella-T has lower their zinc in 15/40 last year and Brad Penn has done the same so we went to the http://www.cen-pe-co.com/ 15/40 oil that has 2300 PPM of zinc and their 15/40 and 30 wt S-3 oils have 1582 in zinc.

http://www.cen-pe-co.com/ seems to be a very common oil with the engine builders in my area. And it was no problem getting it!!!!!!!!!
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post #38 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 14th, 08, 9:07 AM
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Re: best off shelf motor oil with zinc content

newer vehicles don't need the older oil because they run roller cams
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post #39 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 14th, 08, 10:14 AM
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Re: best off shelf motor oil with zinc content

SWHEATON,LOL you got the nerve to say to the tc'ers on here about how you stated for the 40TH TIME about this oil thing with the zinc.Mean while its OK for you to state your total timing rant 1,987,734,621,005 times over and over again.Youre a funny guy man.LLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

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post #40 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 14th, 08, 10:48 AM
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Re: best off shelf motor oil with zinc content

Quote:
Originally Posted by von View Post
FWIW other things to check when installing a cam that can cause lobe failure include: Valve spring coil bind, valve seal to guide interference, and stock type rocker slot not long enough. That last one almost got me but I caught it during assembly. Other must checks are piston to valve clearance, rocker arm geometry (contact sweep on valve), and rocker arm and pushrod clearances (to retainers, guides, etc.).
Attachment 16057 Well said Von.

Last edited by LS7; Sep 28th, 08 at 11:39 AM.
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post #41 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 15th, 08, 12:42 AM
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Re: best off shelf motor oil with zinc content

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Originally Posted by 461RAT View Post
SWHEATON,LOL you got the nerve to say to the tc'ers on here about how you stated for the 40TH TIME about this oil thing with the zinc.Mean while its OK for you to state your total timing rant 1,987,734,621,005 times over and over again.Youre a funny guy man.LLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

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post #42 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 15th, 08, 8:41 AM
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Smile Re: best off shelf motor oil with zinc content

461RAT,YOUR RIGHT,THATS FOR SURE,I BEAT THAT POINT AND AT TIMES THE ZINC STUFF TO DEATH TOO IN AN ATTEMPT TO HELP MY FELLOW TCR'S AVOID FLAT CAMS AND GET THEIR MOTOR'S WITH PERF CAMS RUNNING BETTER/STRONGER.

I see you joined t/c 3/2006 and have 162 posts,sure doesnt look like your too involved in helping anyone out here very much but take the time to bust chops on people that do give of thier time and experience,nice guy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But unfortunately you may not be aware(likely do now after reading it a bazillion times from me & a few others/LOL!!!) that the aftermarket perf cam mfg's dont state that their perf cams require at least 16-18 deg base timing for most apps to run decent. Many inexpericned people here in t/chevelle are simply not aware of that fact and that's why i beat it to death because it keeps comming up all the time in post like my motor run rich,can figure out why,or motor motor doenst run well of has no power,or my motor is a disappointment and in thoses cases if not already asked i will ask whats the base & total timing and 8 of 10 will come back t say base timing is 10-11 deg and BINGO,thats where most of their what seems to be carb tuning issues are or where the power was lost making the motor very soggy in lower rpms untll ther hit full rpm when total 36 deg comes in.

Yes,16-18 deg base timing may not exactly be where they always need to be but that's close enough for a motor to run decent to be dialed in better from there.

It also helps out the folks wrongly setting up the timing for total only on street setups that for example have 36 total timing with dist that has approx 25 deg mech in it. Then take 25 deg mech in dist away from 36 total and and you have only 11 deg base timing .

Thats up to 7 deg retarded for base timing which is substantial when it needs to be maybe 18 deg base. Then if the cam is hot and needs 20+ deg base timing then that would be 9+ deg retarded on the base which is really NG at all,thats why i beat this stuff to death when i see or susppect it's going on.

Again,these are new motor/new perf cam timing setup stats and 1 timing curve doesnt fit all app's,but they will usually get most setups running good enough to dial them in better for the specific application later on down the road with dyno/track testing or as time allows.

I know you have dogged me on this before ,sorry its bugs you so much that i am just trying to help fellow tcr's get their timing squared away or run oil with zinc for the additional protection with flat tappet cams. I guess i should not waste my time to explain myself to you anymore and just ignore you.

Scott

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Last edited by SWHEATON; Sep 15th, 08 at 9:14 AM.
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post #43 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 15th, 08, 10:50 AM
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Re: best off shelf motor oil with zinc content

I am with broman78. More harm than good can come out of doping oils with all kind of additives. Find a manufacturer that recommends their oil for FT cam usage and run it. Just because an oil / additive tests high in Zinc, does not necessarily mean it has an affective additive package. How do you know that the elemental ZN in the oil / additive is actually in a form that will protect your cam?

I'd grab one of the oils that Scott has tested and shown to be a factory-formulated oil from a reputable manufacturer with high ZN levels and lay off the additives (except a bottle of GM EOS for the 20 min break-in. History has shown this helps.)

As always, JMO.
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post #44 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 15th, 08, 4:53 PM
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Re: best off shelf motor oil with zinc content

Quote:
Originally Posted by 461RAT View Post
SWHEATON,LOL you got the nerve to say to the tc'ers on here about how you stated for the 40TH TIME about this oil thing with the zinc.Mean while its OK for you to state your total timing rant 1,987,734,621,005 times over and over again.Youre a funny guy man.LLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
I think this is sarcastic humor. Maybe you guys didn't catch that from this guy?
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post #45 of 51 (permalink) Old Sep 15th, 08, 7:25 PM
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Smile Re: best off shelf motor oil with zinc content

I think i got it.

SCOTT
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