What if I go with tubular arms? - Chevelle Tech

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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old Dec 15th, 09, 12:54 AM Thread Starter
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Sergio
 
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What if I go with tubular arms?

I'm thinking instead of going with MOOG rubber bushings to replace my front, I'll just replace the arms with new tubulars. Thoughts?

I think I can just remove the old a-arms and replace them with the new tubular a-arms with the included ball joints, urethane bushings, and cross shafts. Then just use my stock spindles and wheel setup. It would save me from money on the new bushing kit and money for a shop to media blast my old a-arms and to press the new bushings. And I would update the suspension to have a bit more performance for cornering. Thoughts?

I've seen some upper and lower tubular arms for $1200.

Sergio
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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old Dec 15th, 09, 2:28 AM
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Kim
 
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Re: What if I go with tubular arms?

I would talk to these guys. They seem to have the best stuff out there for the money. Marcus knows his stuff and is more than willing to help.
Kim
http://www.scandc.com/products.htm
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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old Dec 15th, 09, 6:27 AM
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Re: What if I go with tubular arms?

Just get a set of stock replacement arms like these from Ground Up $520 less the 10% Forum discount =$468. Use the remaining $732 for better shocks/springs etc. You could go coil overs for less than $500. Just another route you could take.

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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old Dec 15th, 09, 7:44 AM
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Re: What if I go with tubular arms?

http://www.trzmotorsports.com/317.html
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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old Dec 15th, 09, 9:02 AM
 
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Re: What if I go with tubular arms?

Hello
I noticed that you are looking into upgrading your upper and lower control arms! And I just wanted to throw this out there for you that UMI Performance has a wide variety of upper and lower control arms that may be of interest to you! And when you purchase from UMI Performance you are getting a great quality product that is made right here at our own facility in the USA. And we also offer top notch tech support as well. Below is a link to show you what I am explaining.

http://www.umiperformance.com/catalo...0v6cc1eh6cedv5

If you have any other questions feel free to ask and I will be more than glad to help!
Thanks
Brad

Brad | UMI Performance Inc. | 1.814.857.5400
www.umiperformance.com | brad@umiperformance.com l www.myspace.com/umiperformanceinc New!
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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old Dec 15th, 09, 9:53 AM
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Re: What if I go with tubular arms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim57 View Post
I would talk to these guys. They seem to have the best stuff out there for the money. Marcus knows his stuff and is more than willing to help.
Kim
http://www.scandc.com/products.htm
After reading, looking at, talking to people who run the stuff I finally called SC&C yesterday to place my hellwig swaybar order. I spoke to Mark for a good 30 minutes just about sway bars. He will be getting my business - all of it - going forward. I have the B spindle swap, brakes, GW uppers and all brand new and installed. Its my weak link in my build. It will eventually get swapped to all his stuff up front.

He was / is beyond helpful. Will break things down for you on the phone, wont let you buy what you dont need - just end to end after finally speaking to him directly - EXACTLY what everyone has said - beyond helpful, wont hold back on his actual engineering data (if you want it and can grasp it)and the products, extensive testing and results speak for themselves.....but he will be happy to break it down for you and explain EXACTLY why it is (what I do not see from other companies) what it is.

I've placed plenty of product and technical calls to many a vendor and I have not ever had such a friendly and helpful call. 2 minutes on the line and I swear I felt like I knew the man for a long time already - just comfortable chat, didnt make me feel too dumb which was very cool of him.

I have no personal investment in recommending SC&C other than the fact that Mark flat out rocks from his true understanding of suspension engineering and design to the products to him willing to spend as much time as YOU need with him to get it right the first time.

Just my honest .02 that you cannot go wrong with SC&C

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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old Dec 15th, 09, 3:15 PM
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Kim
 
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Re: What if I go with tubular arms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaux View Post
After reading, looking at, talking to people who run the stuff I finally called SC&C yesterday to place my hellwig swaybar order. I spoke to Mark for a good 30 minutes just about sway bars. He will be getting my business - all of it - going forward. I have the B spindle swap, brakes, GW uppers and all brand new and installed. Its my weak link in my build. It will eventually get swapped to all his stuff up front.

He was / is beyond helpful. Will break things down for you on the phone, wont let you buy what you dont need - just end to end after finally speaking to him directly - EXACTLY what everyone has said - beyond helpful, wont hold back on his actual engineering data (if you want it and can grasp it)and the products, extensive testing and results speak for themselves.....but he will be happy to break it down for you and explain EXACTLY why it is (what I do not see from other companies) what it is.

I've placed plenty of product and technical calls to many a vendor and I have not ever had such a friendly and helpful call. 2 minutes on the line and I swear I felt like I knew the man for a long time already - just comfortable chat, didnt make me feel too dumb which was very cool of him.

I have no personal investment in recommending SC&C other than the fact that Mark flat out rocks from his true understanding of suspension engineering and design to the products to him willing to spend as much time as YOU need with him to get it right the first time.

Just my honest .02 that you cannot go wrong with SC&C
That's the experience I had with him also. His customer service is second to none.
Kim
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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old Dec 15th, 09, 3:42 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What if I go with tubular arms?

WOW, my head is spinning from the great ideas. I will be calling Marc to see exactly why tubular arms are higher performance and if they're worth the money since I'm not exactly racing my Chevelle on road courses. I just want to replace all the bushings and joints and try to get a bit better ride out of it.

Jon had a good idea to get the stock arms replaced and put more money into shocks and new springs.

Can anyone say exactly how much more amazing the tubular arms were after replacement? I will be keeping my stock spindles to keep my stock 14" SS wheels. I'm not sure I would be getting the full advantage of the tubulars since I won't be into all the camber/caster stuff for high performance cornering.

Sergio
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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old Dec 15th, 09, 4:49 PM
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Bryan
 
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Re: What if I go with tubular arms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergio69SS396 View Post
I'm not sure I would be getting the full advantage of the tubulars since I won't be into all the camber/caster stuff for high performance cornering.
Adding caster is just gonna make the car that much more relaxing to drive. Or pleasant----take your pick)

Way back 'when' the caster and camber settings were as close to zero as you could possibly get, steering was much lighter, little to non-existant road feel, steering would not return to center, and the cars wandered a lot.

Anybody out there remember the 60s-early 70s Chrysler products???
Taking a deep breath could change the direction of the car, and a piece of dust falling from under the dash would lock up the brakes!

I have Air Ride tubular uppers in the 59-----can only get 1* of pos caster.
I really need to look into some other uppers that can give me some more.
The 605 PS conversion wants 5* and I just can't get it.

I will most likely be looking into some tubular uppers for my 66 as well.
Just to get some more caster and help it to be more pleasant to drive.

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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old Dec 15th, 09, 4:56 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What if I go with tubular arms?

Well after an hour and a half long discussion with Marcus, I will be going with his company for tubular arms and their balljoints. Rear arms and new rear sway bar too. The guy really knows his stuff! Then I'll be going to NAPA and their premiere USA made parts for the smaller steering stuff like the idler arm, tie rods, and end-link. I think I'll have a sweet setup! He said MOOG is now made in China as well and is not that great

Thought?

Sergio
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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old Dec 15th, 09, 5:19 PM
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Bob
 
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Re: What if I go with tubular arms?

Not to knock any company but MOOG BALL JOINTS,IDLER ARMS,TIE ROD ENDS,CENTER LINK FOR CHEVELLES 1964-1972 ARE MADE IN THE USA. THE STATEMENT IS FALSE. BOB RIZZI
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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old Dec 15th, 09, 5:26 PM
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Re: What if I go with tubular arms?

Sergio,

Did you mention to mark that you still want to use your stock 14-inch wheels?

Some of the "special" pieces (such as tall ball joints) might not fit with 14-inch wheels (not totally sure, but you better be)...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergio
Can anyone say exactly how much more amazing the tubular arms were after replacement? I will be keeping my stock spindles to keep my stock 14" SS wheels. I'm not sure I would be getting the full advantage of the tubulars since I won't be into all the camber/caster stuff for high performance cornering.
Someone please correct me if I am wrong...

I doubt the tubular arms by themselves will do ANYTHING to make the ride (or handling) more "amazing"... Its the total package ( altered geomentry will do more than the tubular arms)... Most tubulars use the same geometry as stock arms ( if they are intended for stock spindle applications)... the "amazing" improvements will be found by going with the taller ball-joints to help the camber, etc... The tubular lower arms might offer less flex than stock arms, but is that potential flex ever really a factor, especially with stock geometry and 14-inch wheels???

IMO, in YOUR situation, just changing to solely tubular arms is not going to do much (if anything) over a good rebuild, (Maybe even compared to fresh rubber bushings)... Nothing except lighten your wallet...

And New RUBBER bushings will give decent handling, without the harshness of Poly bushings... Any improvement that arms and bushings MIGHT give you, will be negated by the stock geometry and wheels/tires...

IMO, IF you are just going to keep everything else relatively stock, then rebuild the stock arms or go with the stamped steel... You can still add bigger bars, different shocks and springs, etc, and they should help handling, but the arms will do little...

IIRC, SC&C's lower arms are altered, geometrically, from stock, to relocate the wheel (front-to-back), AFTER the other modifications have been performed (tall ball joints and better caster/camber).

The taller Ball-joints do alot to allow better geometry to be dialed in, but thats where the 14's might have clearance problems.


Don't get me wrong, I think SC&C and Mark are great ( I am putting some of their stuff on my Chevelle)... But you have to be willing to change more than just the arms... or else your wasting your money

Once you go RAT, you never go back...
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Last edited by 1966_L78; Dec 15th, 09 at 5:54 PM.
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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old Dec 15th, 09, 6:32 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What if I go with tubular arms?

More info all the time. I guess almost all of MOOG is made here which is good, cuz I will be getting some stuff from them.

And you have a point Tony about the arms not doing anything by themselves. Marcus even told me there is no difference at all except some people think they look cooler. It is the balljoints themselves that will alleviate the mundane stock geometry and help with control and the ride. After talking to Marcus, I will more than likely be getting both control arms, new springs, and new shocks through his company. So I think all that together will help substantially. Not to mention I will be getting his rear traction arms and rear swaybar (new to my F40 car). I've been wanting to box my open traction arms anyways, might as well but new and better ones.

I was originally going to do a simple rebuild but after thinking about my Chevelle's less than great rideabilty and since I will have everything out, it will be nice to put all new stuff in have some really good performance parts for not an extreme $$$ amount.

I think I changed my mind to go a bit higher end on the arms after looking at all the cool Hotchkis stuff online last night. Hotchkis stuff looks super cool and high performance, just too much $$$.

Then I will get the MOOG steering stuff for sure. Thanks for all the info everyone.

Thoughts?

Sergio
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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old Dec 15th, 09, 6:51 PM Thread Starter
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Re: What if I go with tubular arms?

Oh, and Tony, the taller ball joints will work with my stock 14" SS wheels as they only have 3.75" of backspacing

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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old Dec 15th, 09, 7:42 PM
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Re: What if I go with tubular arms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergio69SS396 View Post
Oh, and Tony, the taller ball joints will work with my stock 14" SS wheels as they only have 3.75" of backspacing
Good to know you checked...

I have 17 inch wheels, an MIGHT have problems IF I went to 6" BS... Pretty extreme, but I know there are also problems with the lower arm with taller BJs (possible backing plate interference, etc)...

Yes, the ball joints, the TALLER ball joints will give the improved geometry ( and you usually need the specific upper control arm to use those)...


So you eventually plan on getting a bigger set of wheels/tires?

Once you go RAT, you never go back...
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