Tko600 vs Tko600rr - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 70 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 17, 1:26 PM Thread Starter
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Tko600 vs Tko600rr

After reading the problems with Fitech and lack of support, I decided I might as well starting buying parts to get an overdrive manual unit in my car. My carb runs great so it was more of a romance item that wasn't truely needed.. just wanted. Since the next thing I will be doing witgh my car is more of a want than a need, I might as well do what I truly want!

I am deciding between the tko600 and tko600rr.. what are your thoughts?

Current setup:
489 with jegs 290 heads
victor jr 454 r intake
850 mighty demon annular booster
MSD 6a/distributor set at 20 initial advanced to 38* total all in by 2500
th400 3500 stall
3.73 rear gears with 28.5 inch tall tire
3.5 inch aluminum driveshaft--will just have it shortened
Cam: 250/256 @ .050 .605/.620 lift and .012/.018 lash(solid flat tappet with EDM lifters)

TKO 600 gear spacing 2.87, 1.89, 1.28, 1:1, 0.64od
TKO 600rr gear spacing: 2.87, 1.89, 1.28, 1:1, 0.82od

Plan:
tko600rr-- gear spread: 2.87, 1.89, 1.28, 1:1, .82od
Clutch/flywheel: McLeod Street Twin Clutch Kits 6400107 10.5 inch clutch with steel 168 tooth flywheel(will call and ensure I can have it balanced for my external balance 489) also open to suggestions if this is too much clutch. This is a street car. Might see the strip once a year.
Bell housing: QuickTime Bellhousings RM-6022--uses clutch fork and 168 tooth flywheel with 10.5 inch clutch
Shifter: black jack shifter

I will be using a stock z-bar set up on this and already have the pedals.

Last edited by tacomatrd; Apr 23rd, 17 at 2:15 PM.
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post #2 of 70 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 17, 2:09 PM
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Re: Tko600 vs Tko600rr

Could you give a cliff note on the TKO 600?

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post #3 of 70 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 17, 2:14 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Tko600 vs Tko600rr

Quote:
Originally Posted by aukai View Post
Could you give a cliff note on the TKO 600?
What information are you looking for on the tko600?
Its gear spacing is:
2.87 1.89 1.28 1.00 0.64
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post #4 of 70 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 17, 2:26 PM
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Re: Tko600 vs Tko600rr

Thank you, I didn't know the OD ratio off hand. Depending on what RPM the motor smooths out with your cam would be the way to choose the OD I think. The converter smooths out the cam duration, with the clutch it will jerk a bit if the RPM is low in the gear. Hope this makes sense.
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YOU KNOW YOU HAVE THE POWER..... AND IF YOU USE THAT POWER BAD THINGS ARE GOING TO HAPPEN!!

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Holley HP EFI
Marcella Manifolds
Heads by Darin Morgan
Wires from Rick@Firecore
www.firecore50.com/
Cam by UDHarold
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post #5 of 70 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 17, 3:04 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Tko600 vs Tko600rr

Quote:
Originally Posted by aukai View Post
Thank you, I didn't know the OD ratio off hand. Depending on what RPM the motor smooths out with your cam would be the way to choose the OD I think. The converter smooths out the cam duration, with the clutch it will jerk a bit if the RPM is low in the gear. Hope this makes sense.
I keep going back and forth between the .82 and the .64

Currently I am running 3600rpm at 75 with the th400 3.73s and 26.5 inch tall tires. I plan on changing tires to 28.5 and going with an over drive.

The .82 seems about right with this cam-- if I could cruise at 2300-2800, it would be perfect for the way the power comes on and not lug--even with this camshaft.
I guess I answered my own question. I added some cruise RPMS for the two ODs.
The .82 od is similar to my 5 speed tacoma after looking at those RPM changes! Looking at the .64 OD it would NEVER be used even going across town on the slower freeway of 55--even the .82 is pushing it but I bet it could be used.

.82 at 55: 1983
.65 at 55: 1548

.82 at 65: 2355
.64 at 65: 1829

.82 at 70: 2524
.64 at 70: 1970

.82 at 75: 2704
.64 at 75: 2111

.82 at 80: 2855
.64 at 80: 2252
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post #6 of 70 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 17, 3:18 PM
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Re: Tko600 vs Tko600rr

I have the tko 600 with the .64 overdrive. With your cam at 250 duration you probably won't be using 5th gear until about 60 mph or higher. At 248 duration Mine starts bucking at 57. Think T56 magnum you can get .82 5th . 64 6th.

My biggest worry is when I pass on my wife will sell all my stuff for what I told her I paid for them.
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post #7 of 70 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 17, 3:21 PM
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Re: Tko600 vs Tko600rr

Are these RPMs with the 28" tire? You will need to be above the lugging RPM cruising, or it will drive you nuts.
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post #8 of 70 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 17, 3:23 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Tko600 vs Tko600rr

Quote:
Originally Posted by aukai View Post
Are these RPMs with the 28" tire? You will need to be above the lugging RPM cruising, or it will drive you nuts.
Yes all RPMs with 28 inch tall tire.


I have considered the t56, but the added expenses of going t56 over the tko600 aren't worth it to me.
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post #9 of 70 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 17, 3:23 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Tko600 vs Tko600rr

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trosky View Post
I have the tko 600 with the .64 overdrive. With your cam at 250 duration you probably won't be using 5th gear until about 60 mph or higher. At 248 duration Mine starts bucking at 57. Think T56 magnum you can get .82 5th . 64 6th.
What rear gear are you running?
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post #10 of 70 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 17, 3:40 PM
blm
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Re: Tko600 vs Tko600rr

My personal opinion is the .82 is not enough of an rpm drop for an overdrive. Typical highway cruising speed is about 70 mph. At 60 mph most other vehicles are flying past you and you are holding up traffic in the slow lane. If I were going with a Tremec I would do the .64 overdrive.
I am planning an overdrive mod as well. Currently I have an Muncie 4 speed and a 3.73 rear end. For longest time i thought I would do a new M22Z and change my rear gears to 3.08. It wasnt till i went out on a lonely highway and put my car at 2,600 rpm cruising (which is rpm at 70 mph with m22z and 3.08 rearend) that I realized 2,600 rpm wasnt going to cut it.
I will not cut my trans tunnel for an overdrive transmission (cutting required for a Tremec) so I have decided on getting a Legend transmission. That will allow me to keep my 3.73 rear gears and cruise just above 2,000 rpm at 70 mph.
Through my research I came across several cases that said the Tremec suffers from a 2nd to 3rd high rpm shifting problem. Dont know much about that however.
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post #11 of 70 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 17, 4:00 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Tko600 vs Tko600rr

Quote:
Originally Posted by blm View Post
My personal opinion is the .82 is not enough of an rpm drop for an overdrive. Typical highway cruising speed is about 70 mph. At 60 mph most other vehicles are flying past you and you are holding up traffic in the slow lane. If I were going with a Tremec I would do the .64 overdrive.
I am planning an overdrive mod as well. Currently I have an Muncie 4 speed and a 3.73 rear end. For longest time i thought I would do a new M22Z and change my rear gears to 3.08. It wasnt till i went out on a lonely highway and put my car at 2,600 rpm cruising (which is rpm at 70 mph with m22z and 3.08 rearend) that I realized 2,600 rpm wasnt going to cut it.
I will not cut my trans tunnel for an overdrive transmission (cutting required for a Tremec) so I have decided on getting a Legend transmission. That will allow me to keep my 3.73 rear gears and cruise just above 2,000 rpm at 70 mph.
Through my research I came across several cases that said the Tremec suffers from a 2nd to 3rd high rpm shifting problem. Dont know much about that however.
The legend looks nice, but most of the speed limits around here are 65--55 going to the beach and 65 around the city. 75 maximum anywhere in the state--but we can assure most will drive 80.

I am looking primarily at 65 and 80 as my target cruise RPMs. I will go the route to the beach with a 55 speed limit more often than anywhere else(where I will drive 65).
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post #12 of 70 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 17, 4:34 PM
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Re: Tko600 vs Tko600rr

Quote:
Originally Posted by tacomatrd View Post
most of the speed limits around here are 65--55 going to the beach and 65 around the city. 75 maximum anywhere in the state--but we can assure most will drive 80.

I am looking primarily at 65 and 80 as my target cruise RPMs. I will go the route to the beach with a 55 speed limit more often than anywhere else(where I will drive 65).
It sounds like most of your driving will be 65 or less. If thats the case, IMO, i'd go with the .82 OD. You'll get more/better use out of your overdrive with the .82 than the .64.

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post #13 of 70 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 17, 4:38 PM
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Re: Tko600 vs Tko600rr

I have the .82 overdrive and find it perfect for me. With 3.55 gears and a 27" tall tire, I cruise 70 mph at 2500 rpm in 5th gear, and 1st is the same effective final drive as 4.56s and an M21/M22.

My experience has been with a rowdy cam that anything less than 2200 rpm or so will lug down the road and likely pull you into the idle or transition circuit and not run efficiently anyway. More than 3000 rpm down the highway just burns excess fuel.

Again, my opinion. I'm happy with what it did for me. I also did not have to cut my floors with the shaved kit I bought. It's not as good at shifting as my Muncie was with Hurst linkage. I also ended up replacing my upper control arms in the rear with adjustable ones to correct the pinion angle which I've heard is common.

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post #14 of 70 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 17, 4:58 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Tko600 vs Tko600rr

Quote:
Originally Posted by 64SS427 View Post
I have the .82 overdrive and find it perfect for me. With 3.55 gears and a 27" tall tire, I cruise 70 mph at 2500 rpm in 5th gear, and 1st is the same effective final drive as 4.56s and an M21/M22.

My experience has been with a rowdy cam that anything less than 2200 rpm or so will lug down the road and likely pull you into the idle or transition circuit and not run efficiently anyway. More than 3000 rpm down the highway just burns excess fuel.

Again, my opinion. I'm happy with what it did for me. I also did not have to cut my floors with the shaved kit I bought. It's not as good at shifting as my Muncie was with Hurst linkage. I also ended up replacing my upper control arms in the rear with adjustable ones to correct the pinion angle which I've heard is common.

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post #15 of 70 (permalink) Old Apr 23rd, 17, 7:25 PM
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Re: Tko600 vs Tko600rr

I have had both. With your gearing and your goals, I would do the .82. Sure it is not a big drop from 4th to 5th, but according to your chart, you will only be at between 2355 rpm and 2855 rpm between 65 mph and 80 mph. That is not screaming at all. I think the .64 is too much of a drop. You will be too low of RPM at one point and then have to downshift to 4th again. I had 4.10s with the RR .82 5th gear and found I only needed an extra gear above 75-80 MPH. How often does that happen? The .64 I found to be sort of out in no-man's land. Had to get 4th a little too high in rpm before going to 5th, then as soon as I hit a hill or slowed a bit it was a downshift to 4th gear. I wish they had a .75 OD.
With your 3.73's the effective gear ratio with a .64 will be like having a 2.38:1 rear. Think about that for a bit. With the .82 you will be at about 3.06:1
My Legend has a .69 OD and that is tolerable at 60 MPH. It is like having a 2.83:1 rear. Makes me want to stick 4.30's or 4.56's back there though.

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