Roller cam materials and melonized distributor gears - Chevelle Tech

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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 10th, 11, 3:53 PM Thread Starter
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Roller cam materials and melonized distributor gears

Another dumb question: What is a factory zz502 cam made out? I think I recall from porosity issues that tappet cams are cast iron in general(?) And rollers in general are billet steel(?) And the zz is?

It seems there is always talk of distributor gears associated with roller cams. I heard that you need a melonized gear with a zz502 cam. MSD says all their gears are melonized so I would be good to go with their 8365 pro billet HEI. BUT, being a good boy and using the search function first, I found a post from Wolfplace from 2004 where he said that MDS distributors have problems with GM rollers.

So where are we today, could an out of the box MSD HEI (with a supposed melonized gear) drop in a zz crate without gear confrontations?

This all escalated from the simple desire for a rev limiter...

68 SS front, 68 SS rear
zz502 and Hydroboost, Underside TKO,
Short stick console
YouTube video

I'm not a car guy but did all the mech/elec work... and everything started with a dumb question
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 10th, 11, 4:14 PM
 
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Re: Roller cam materials and melonized distributor gears

A bronze gear will work with any cam core.

A melonized gear will work with a core with an induction hardened gear.

You factory cam will work with a melonized gear. MSD's stuff is .501" diameter. GM's stuff is .491".

Chris Straub
Mfg Performance Parts
www.straubtechnologies.com
www.distributorgears.com

Why is it we never have time or money to do it the right way in the beginning but we always have time and money to do it over again?
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 10th, 11, 5:13 PM
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Re: Roller cam materials and melonized distributor gears

Like Chris mentioned your GM HEI has a .491" shaft and the MSD stuff has a .500 shaft.
So if it was me I would go to the GM store and get a melonized gear and hone it out to .500" then you will be safe.
The GM part # is 10456413
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 10th, 11, 5:26 PM
 
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Re: Roller cam materials and melonized distributor gears

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave427 View Post
Like Chris mentioned your GM HEI has a .491" shaft and the MSD stuff has a .500 shaft.
So if it was me I would go to the GM store and get a melonized gear and hone it out to .500" then you will be safe.
The GM part # is 10456413
They are available in .501". PM me or Wolfy for them.

Chris Straub
Mfg Performance Parts
www.straubtechnologies.com
www.distributorgears.com

Why is it we never have time or money to do it the right way in the beginning but we always have time and money to do it over again?
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 10th, 11, 6:37 PM
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Walter
 
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Re: Roller cam materials and melonized distributor gears

Is this just related to GM roller cams?

69 Chevelle SS
10.5-1 496/AFR 305's/Voodoo 60234 Solid Roller/TH400 4000 Stall/4.11 12 Bolt
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 10th, 11, 6:59 PM
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Re: Roller cam materials and melonized distributor gears

Quote:
Originally Posted by gibbons View Post
Another dumb question: What is a factory zz502 cam made out? I think I recall from porosity issues that tappet cams are cast iron in general(?) And rollers in general are billet steel(?) And the zz is?

It seems there is always talk of distributor gears associated with roller cams. I heard that you need a melonized gear with a zz502 cam. MSD says all their gears are melonized so I would be good to go with their 8365 pro billet HEI. BUT, being a good boy and using the search function first, I found a post from Wolfplace from 2004 where he said that MDS distributors have problems with GM rollers.

So where are we today, could an out of the box MSD HEI (with a supposed melonized gear) drop in a zz crate without gear confrontations?

This all escalated from the simple desire for a rev limiter...
No the MSD pro billet HEI does NOT have a melonized gear,you must install one.

MSD suggested THIS one for me http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MSD-8561/ I am running the 8365 Dist. & the ZZ502 cam.

72 ss 454 "W" code,w/cowl induction (how many left?)
matching # LS5 454+.060" 9.2 :1, 2.19/1.88 valves,Comp HR cam 289/295 234/240 .613/.613 110* (dyno'd @ 557hp @ 5400 & 583tq @ 4100)
matching # M22 w/CF dual friction clutch.
Holley 750 HPs dp(82751) on Weiand Stealth & MSD Pro billet HEI
Hedman Elite headers/Flowmaster exh. (w/super 40s)
TC#3095
Garage find parked from 1978-2004

http://macswebs.com/ls5registry/bal/bal.htm
http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/sh...0&ppuser=25834
http://ssregistry.macswebs.com/1972/1d37w2b_reis.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqZkVw6xMkM
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 10th, 11, 7:42 PM
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Re: Roller cam materials and melonized distributor gears

Lunati may have solved this problem with the everwear dist. gear, the gear is compatible with 1050, 5150, 5160, 8620 and 8660 roller cams, Read on:

http://www.lunatipower.com/ProductGr...?id=243&cid=43

.500 gear...$49.95 At summit:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUN-89026LUN/


Here is an article for a distributor mod to oil the gears, it may be a good idea for whatever gear you decide.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/r.../photo_09.html

It sounds like a great idea and i wonder if any/or how many people have tried this. Engine builders lets hear what you think of this. i cant see how it would hurt.

"Don't You Know It's All Ball Bearings These Days"


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Last edited by chrispicide35; Jan 10th, 11 at 8:38 PM.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 10th, 11, 9:22 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Roller cam materials and melonized distributor gears

Oh man, this is getting into an ugly topic again! Like which oil pan

The MSD guy I talked to seemed pretty sharp. For what it's worth, he assured me that their gears are now melonized and described surface hardening that entails. Another TC member sent me note about his experience with an out of the box MSD distributor on his 502 and he sounds like he's doing fine.

Anyway... I got myself worked into a frenzy on this one, just like I do with everything and end up paying 5X what in originally scoped. I am still monkeying with other winter projects, I think I will let this one sink in. An option is the 8501 kit, which has the new HEI processor with rev limiter and better coil (plus cap and button) that will bolt onto my GM unit that I know works. I wouldn't have the bearings and groovy stuff the MSD has, but I don't race and only drive 800 miles a year.

OK, the big FYI question: Is the zz502 cam billet steel or cast?

68 SS front, 68 SS rear
zz502 and Hydroboost, Underside TKO,
Short stick console
YouTube video

I'm not a car guy but did all the mech/elec work... and everything started with a dumb question
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 10th, 11, 10:39 PM
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Re: Roller cam materials and melonized distributor gears

Quote:
Originally Posted by cstraub View Post
A bronze gear will work with any cam core.

A melonized gear will work with a core with an induction hardened gear.

You factory cam will work with a melonized gear. MSD's stuff is .501" diameter. GM's stuff is .491".

A bronze gear will work with any cam gear but it won't last on any camshaft. It needs to be checked on a regular basis. Like every 500-1000 miles. I would highly reccomend against running one on the street. It's a race car ONLY part.

Gibbons, GM recommends a melonized gear. End of story.

The factory cast cams had a cast iron gear and you could run a cast iron distributor gear.

Many roller cams are and were made from billet steel. A cast iron distributor gear is to hard and could sacrifice the cam. Most run a bronze gear.

My personal preference is a billet steel cam with a press on cast iron gear with a melonized distributor gear.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 11th, 11, 8:04 AM
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Re: Roller cam materials and melonized distributor gears

Quote:
Originally Posted by gibbons View Post

OK, the big FYI question: Is the zz502 cam billet steel or cast?
Steel Billet.

72 ss 454 "W" code,w/cowl induction (how many left?)
matching # LS5 454+.060" 9.2 :1, 2.19/1.88 valves,Comp HR cam 289/295 234/240 .613/.613 110* (dyno'd @ 557hp @ 5400 & 583tq @ 4100)
matching # M22 w/CF dual friction clutch.
Holley 750 HPs dp(82751) on Weiand Stealth & MSD Pro billet HEI
Hedman Elite headers/Flowmaster exh. (w/super 40s)
TC#3095
Garage find parked from 1978-2004

http://macswebs.com/ls5registry/bal/bal.htm
http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/sh...0&ppuser=25834
http://ssregistry.macswebs.com/1972/1d37w2b_reis.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqZkVw6xMkM
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 11th, 11, 10:26 AM
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Re: Roller cam materials and melonized distributor gears

Seriously if its all about a rev limiter why don't you just add the module to the 502 distributor and you will bwe finished.
There is no power gain here, by adding the MSD unit.
The best thing about the MSD unit is the timing curves can be adjusted a bit easier.


Dave
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 11th, 11, 5:00 PM
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Re: Roller cam materials and melonized distributor gears

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrispicide35 View Post
Here is an article for a distributor mod to oil the gears, it may be a good idea for whatever gear you decide.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/r.../photo_09.html

It sounds like a great idea and i wonder if any/or how many people have tried this. Engine builders lets hear what you think of this. i cant see how it would hurt.
I cut the groove on my MSD after learning about it here.
I don't see any wear on the gear so it didn't hurt...
I'd definitely do it again on any engine I build.
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 11th, 11, 5:07 PM
 
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Re: Roller cam materials and melonized distributor gears

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas69 View Post
A bronze gear will work with any cam gear but it won't last on any camshaft. It needs to be checked on a regular basis. Like every 500-1000 miles. I would highly reccomend against running one on the street. It's a race car ONLY part.

Gibbons, GM recommends a melonized gear. End of story.

The factory cast cams had a cast iron gear and you could run a cast iron distributor gear.

Many roller cams are and were made from billet steel. A cast iron distributor gear is to hard and could sacrifice the cam. Most run a bronze gear.

My personal preference is a billet steel cam with a press on cast iron gear with a melonized distributor gear.
Gear lash. Most wear on rollers comes from improper amounts of lash between the dist. gear and the cam gear. We are asking these to mesh at 90. When John Reed came out with oversized cam gears after chasing phasing issues with with ignition units one can now get gears to set the proper lash. If you check the lash and set it up correctly you would be surprised how many thousands of miles a bronze gear will run.

Chris Straub
Mfg Performance Parts
www.straubtechnologies.com
www.distributorgears.com

Why is it we never have time or money to do it the right way in the beginning but we always have time and money to do it over again?
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 11th, 11, 9:21 PM
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Re: Roller cam materials and melonized distributor gears

I got 2,000 out of mine before it thrashed the bearings and left me on the side of the road. I'll put that down as one of the many lessons learned in life. ha ha Engine builder put a bronze distributor gear on a press on cast iron cam gear. Of course I run a melonized and ablocked bypass on my new engine but did a boat load of research after it happened. They have their place, just not in a street car. IMO
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 13th, 11, 4:14 PM
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Re: Roller cam materials and melonized distributor gears

i just called my dealer here in leesville louisiana and that part# 10456413 is $70. plus tax. wow.
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