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post #1 of 47 (permalink) Old Oct 11th, 10, 11:39 AM Thread Starter
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Ken
 
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BBC Titanium Valves?

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone is running titanium valves in their street/strip big blocks? I'm making some changes to my 540 and started thinking about titanium valves. They are lighter weight (maybe 40%) than steel and are very strong. Just wondering what the downside might be for a street/strip application outside of the cost? I really like running a solid roller cam, but the springs pressures that often accompany these cams causes concerns for the valvetrain longevity. I've recently sent my Red Zone roller lifters back to Isky to have them converted to the EZ-X roller. I'm already running titanium retainers. I know that there are concerns around galling when using titanium. As I understand it, titanium has great properties for strength but not so much for wear. David Reher wrote a pretty good article on the benefits of using Ti valves, and even went as far as to say that he wouldn't hesitate to run them on a streeet engine. What I find curious/puzzling, is that when you look at Manley's table listing for applications where they recommend a Ti valve, you don't see anything for street/strip applications. Manley seems to favor Ti valves for applications where the RPM peak is over 8,000 and/or for high endurance marine stuff. I'm running a 2.3" intake and 1.9" exhaust. I just checked the springs on my engine using my LSM spring pressure tester. The springs were intalled with 300lbs on the seat. The engine has seen dyno time and some street miles. All of the exhaust springs were 295/300lbs. The intakes were at around 280-285lbs. It seems obvious that the added weight of the intake valve is causing the spring to work harder/fatigue faster.

Thoughts?
Good idea, bad idea?
Intake and exhaust or just intake?
Special valve guides required?
Tip hardening?

Any feedback is appreciated.
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post #2 of 47 (permalink) Old Oct 11th, 10, 11:43 AM
 
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Re: BBC Titanium Valves?

No problem running them on the street for intakes. Most just aren't going to spend $1000 for valves Ken.

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post #3 of 47 (permalink) Old Oct 11th, 10, 11:51 AM Thread Starter
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Re: BBC Titanium Valves?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cstraub View Post
No problem running them on the street for intakes. Most just aren't going to spend $1000 for valves Ken.
Thanks for the reply, Chris. Do you think it's a wise investment or a waste of money for what I'm trying to do? I guess I'm trying to have my cake and eat it, too. I want a maximum effort street/strip engine, but I also want to be able to drive it where ever and however I want without worrying about a lifter or a spring failing. I understand that failures can and do happen, I'm looking for ways to minimize the the opportunity for failures. Who are the best manufacturers for Ti valves? Some of the companies I've been looking at are Manley, Ferrea and Liberty. I looked at Rev valves as I've had good luck with them in the past, but they don't appear to make a Ti valve.

P.S. Most people wouldn't spend $700 on an oil pan, either. That's just how I roll
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post #4 of 47 (permalink) Old Oct 11th, 10, 12:29 PM
 
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Re: BBC Titanium Valves?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjett View Post
Thanks for the reply, Chris. Do you think it's a wise investment or a waste of money for what I'm trying to do? I guess I'm trying to have my cake and eat it, too. I want a maximum effort street/strip engine, but I also want to be able to drive it where ever and however I want without worrying about a lifter or a spring failing. I understand that failures can and do happen, I'm looking for ways to minimize the the opportunity for failures. Who are the best manufacturers for Ti valves? Some of the companies I've been looking at are Manley, Ferrea and Liberty. I looked at Rev valves as I've had good luck with them in the past, but they don't appear to make a Ti valve.

P.S. Most people wouldn't spend $700 on an oil pan, either. That's just how I roll
Anytime you can reduce the weight on the valve side of the rocker arm you are going to see benefits. In your case I would go part of the way....meaning instead of Ti I would run a hollow stem stainless valve.

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post #5 of 47 (permalink) Old Oct 11th, 10, 12:42 PM
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Re: BBC Titanium Valves?

Ken,
Very pleased to see some newfound enthusiasm being focused toward the 66.

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post #6 of 47 (permalink) Old Oct 11th, 10, 1:22 PM Thread Starter
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Re: BBC Titanium Valves?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cstraub View Post
No problem running them on the street for intakes. Most just aren't going to spend $1000 for valves Ken.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cstraub View Post
Anytime you can reduce the weight on the valve side of the rocker arm you are going to see benefits. In your case I would go part of the way....meaning instead of Ti I would run a hollow stem stainless valve.
Thanks, Chris. I'll check into it. FYI... the intake manifold is at Hogan being modified. From there it (and the heads) will be shipped out to be ported. Once I have the flow data I'll get w/you on a cam.
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post #7 of 47 (permalink) Old Oct 11th, 10, 1:23 PM Thread Starter
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Re: BBC Titanium Valves?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillsCamino View Post
Ken,
Very pleased to see some newfound enthusiasm being focused toward the 66.
Thanks, Bill. I've put too much blood, sweat and tears into that car to let it sit any longer. I'm planning on driving the wheels off of it once I get it back on the road
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post #8 of 47 (permalink) Old Jan 25th, 15, 5:46 AM
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Re: BBC Titanium Valves?

I don't usually resurrect old threads, but I just found this one to be interesting enough to revisit. I'm wondering if anyone here has opted for titanium valves in their BBC street/strip type engines in the past five years since Ken started this thread, and what information and/or experience they might have to offer concerning the questions that were raised here by Ken in the first few posts.

I'd also like to welcome anyone to chime in who might be able to offer some additional answers to Ken's questions, since he asked the same ones that I myself have had concerning titanium valves. Yes, the cost can be somewhat prohibitive, but IMO, that isn't necessarily a game changer in itself considering the costs of some of the other things we pay for such as BBC cylinder heads, after market blocks, etc., etc.

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post #9 of 47 (permalink) Old Jan 25th, 15, 8:33 AM
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Re: BBC Titanium Valves?

I don't really see any benefit to a setup like that. Big block lifters are in pairs. So both intake and exhaust have to be sent for rebuild. You would still have a decent spring pressure on the exhaust side. And street solid roller setups normally are in the low 200's on spring pressure and are still failing lifters. If you are going to spend the money then lighten up all 16 valves and try to reduce the spring pressure on all sides.

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post #10 of 47 (permalink) Old Jan 25th, 15, 10:37 AM
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Re: BBC Titanium Valves?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjett View Post
Thanks for the reply, Chris. Do you think it's a wise investment or a waste of money for what I'm trying to do? I guess I'm trying to have my cake and eat it, too. I want a maximum effort street/strip engine, but I also want to be able to drive it where ever and however I want without worrying about a lifter or a spring failing. I understand that failures can and do happen, I'm looking for ways to minimize the the opportunity for failures. Who are the best manufacturers for Ti valves? Some of the companies I've been looking at are Manley, Ferrea and Liberty. I looked at Rev valves as I've had good luck with them in the past, but they don't appear to make a Ti valve.

P.S. Most people wouldn't spend $700 on an oil pan, either. That's just how I roll
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post #11 of 47 (permalink) Old Jan 25th, 15, 11:31 AM
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Re: BBC Titanium Valves?

Will coatings add to longevity? Haven't heard from Ken in a long time hope he's well....

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post #12 of 47 (permalink) Old Jan 25th, 15, 12:19 PM
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Re: BBC Titanium Valves?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aukai View Post
Haven't heard from Ken in a long time hope he's well....
Neither have I.
Last we talked he'd been doing a lot of traveling for Cisco. I lost his numbers a couple cell phones ago.
Been a long time since we've hung out and I knew the whole family. Even bought a car from his Dad.
He hasn't even been on TC in 6 months...

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post #13 of 47 (permalink) Old Jan 25th, 15, 3:42 PM
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Re: BBC Titanium Valves?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aukai View Post
Will coatings add to longevity? Haven't heard from Ken in a long time hope he's well....
Ti valves need to run on copper seats end even then, DLC coating adds longevity. If you're running Ti valves on iron seats it's almost a must. This is assuming you have a build that really justifies Ti valves. I don't believe a street/strip engine needs them. Money could be spent in better places IMO. Lifters and springs don't fail because of steel valves.

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post #14 of 47 (permalink) Old Jan 25th, 15, 7:08 PM
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Re: BBC Titanium Valves?

Tough to know who's advice to take on things like this. One cam company says that the weight of steel valves really DOES matter when using radical/intense lobe profiles. Another builder says that what material the valve seats are doesn't matter with titanium valves, while one other builder says that it DOES matter what material the valve seats are.

But I still welcome everyone to keep the info flowing. Thanks.

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post #15 of 47 (permalink) Old Jan 25th, 15, 7:23 PM
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Re: BBC Titanium Valves?

Back in my machinist days, I recall there being some discussion about valve guides when using Titanium valves. It was said that titanium would saw through certain metals when they were used with those valves.

Only thing is, I don't remember which combination was said to be taboo.

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