600 HP 396/402 How do we get there? - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 41 (permalink) Old Mar 25th, 09, 8:40 PM Thread Starter
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Gerry
 
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600 HP 396/402 How do we get there?

Hi there, I'm planning to build my '65 chevelle race only. It will be a built 12 bolt with 4:10 gears and a spool, a built Powerglide etc. I'm planning on running in the low 10's at about 130 mp. I'm guessing the car would weigh in around 3500 Lbs and I would probably handle 28 x 10 x 15 inch slicks. Question is it realistic to reach 600HP with 396/402 CI ? I have several of these 2 bolt blocks and 820 open and 290 closed heads. Also have steel crankshaft, 396/375 trw pistons on factory truck rods, so I suppose I'll run under 6500 rpm. Also have performer rpm and a victor with oval ports. I could use some help sorting thru this and any suggestions on cams and just in general, Thanks Gerard396
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post #2 of 41 (permalink) Old Mar 25th, 09, 8:54 PM
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Re: 600 HP 396/402 How do we get there?

Let me state the obvious first, it would be easier with more inches. That being said it can be done, but it won't be easy. I would say, it will take a solid roller cam setup. If you are set on using what you have, the rods are 7/16 bolt rods right? The next question is pistons. It is going to take a better piston than the TRW's. I would suggest a lightweight race type piston from J&E or a Wiseco. This will allow you to get the compression as high as practical, 12-1 probably. Then from here you can pick which head to use, I would rather use an open chamber head. I don't think the 6500 rpm limit is practical. This engine will need to go to 7500 to make power. A steel crank, lightweight piston and 7/16 rod will handle this without a problem. On the other hand, you need to look at price compared to performance. Machine work is not cheap, so it may be more cost effective to go aftermarket than recondition stock parts. What I mean is, a set of Eagle or Scat rods, may not be much more than magnafluxing, resizing, and rod bolt replacement of your stockers. Second a set of small port aluminum heads may be a better option than rebuilding the heads you have now. And you can sell what you have and recoup some of the cost. But I can say, my 408 at 10.5-1 with a .574/.588 flat tappet cam, 781 casting heads made 500 hp on 93 octane gas. So it can be done, you just need to look at cost compared to power.

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post #3 of 41 (permalink) Old Mar 25th, 09, 8:56 PM
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Re: 600 HP 396/402 How do we get there?

600HP from a 396/402, that 1.5 HP/cu in. For comparison there's a bunch of 540s out at around 750HP, that's 1.38 HP/cu in. Those engines have AFR heads, aggressive lobe profile solid roller cams, big carbs on big manifolds, etc. I think you need to fall back and regroup on your HP expectation. You'll be doing well to get 500-525 real HP out of your iron head 402. At that, you might need another 1000RPM on that 6500. Sort of a different ballpark.

Tom
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post #4 of 41 (permalink) Old Mar 25th, 09, 9:19 PM
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Re: 600 HP 396/402 How do we get there?

are you going to spray this?

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post #5 of 41 (permalink) Old Mar 25th, 09, 9:57 PM
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Re: 600 HP 396/402 How do we get there?

save your money an build something bigger ..... it won't have to work anywhere near as hard for the power .... meaning it will last longer/be cheaper

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post #6 of 41 (permalink) Old Mar 25th, 09, 10:03 PM
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Re: 600 HP 396/402 How do we get there?

a 600 HP 454 that spins to 6500 is a fairly easy build.
Doing that with a 396/402....nope..just not possible..at least IMHO and experience.
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post #7 of 41 (permalink) Old Mar 25th, 09, 10:11 PM
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Re: 600 HP 396/402 How do we get there?

You'd be better off selling all your blocks, rods, cranks, buy a 454 block, 4.25 crank...


but if your stuck on the 396 gonna need a lot of compression (13:1 or better) big solid roller, and spin it to the moon. Gonna need more gear than a 4.10 to have success with the glide, you'd be better off with a th400/350.

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post #8 of 41 (permalink) Old Mar 25th, 09, 10:13 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 600 HP 396/402 How do we get there?

Hi Guys, thanks for the reply. I have nothing set in stone at this point and I'm open to suggestions. I have no interest in nos, my concept would be naturally aspirated and 1.5 HP per cubic inch which I know has been done with small blocks. I came up with 600HP ( actually 550-600hp) while using a performance calculator. Could I spin a 2 bolt main big block to 7500 RPM with lightweight pistons and aftermarket 7/16 rods without blowing myself up? I had thought about your suggestions of aftermarket heads and Roller Cams and recycling parts to get to where I want to go. I really would like to explore the smaller big block so I was wondering if anyone had done it. I would hate to do the build-up and fall short. Thanks Gerard396
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post #9 of 41 (permalink) Old Mar 25th, 09, 10:14 PM
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Smile Re: 600 HP 396/402 How do we get there?

Normally asperated goodluck unless your expecting to build an all out race motor but with spray or a blower its possible but still kinda radical for street.

Scott

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post #10 of 41 (permalink) Old Mar 25th, 09, 10:15 PM
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Re: 600 HP 396/402 How do we get there?

7500 and studded 2 bolt mains is not out of the question. You'll need quite the solid roller too.
Shoot for 500-550 HP if you stick with the 396/402 platform...again JMHO
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post #11 of 41 (permalink) Old Mar 25th, 09, 10:25 PM
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Re: 600 HP 396/402 How do we get there?

It can be done but unless you are CI limited why only 402 CI? You could make 650~700HP with less effort with a 468~505. Custom pistons 11.5~13.5:1 light weight H beam rods, angle milled worked over 781/049's flowing 330 cfm. Ported RPM, 250's @.050'' .700'' sld RR should get you there.

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post #12 of 41 (permalink) Old Mar 25th, 09, 11:00 PM
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Re: 600 HP 396/402 How do we get there?

go to superchevy.com and search [mean little rodent part III] it will show 3 combos to yield you 500, 540, and 575. i based my motor of the 540 version and im happy with results.
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post #13 of 41 (permalink) Old Mar 26th, 09, 12:09 AM
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Re: 600 HP 396/402 How do we get there?

Just take one of your 396 steel cranks rods with some new pistons and put it in a 454 block and make a 427. You can make 550-600 pretty easy that way and have a motor that will spin to 7500.
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post #14 of 41 (permalink) Old Mar 26th, 09, 1:41 AM
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Re: 600 HP 396/402 How do we get there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerard396 View Post
Hi there, I'm planning to build my '65 chevelle race only. It will be a built 12 bolt with 4:10 gears and a spool, a built Powerglide etc. I'm planning on running in the low 10's at about 130 mp. I'm guessing the car would weigh in around 3500 Lbs and I would probably handle 28 x 10 x 15 inch slicks. Question is it realistic to reach 600HP with 396/402 CI ? I have several of these 2 bolt blocks and 820 open and 290 closed heads. Also have steel crankshaft, 396/375 trw pistons on factory truck rods, so I suppose I'll run under 6500 rpm. Also have performer rpm and a victor with oval ports. I could use some help sorting thru this and any suggestions on cams and just in general, Thanks Gerard396
First of all i know it can be done and we will be building one later this summer BUT everybody knows i will run the living crap out of it

My street 327 if i had to guess is 540-550hp+ but that engine has to spin 8200rpm, 6100rpm stall and transbrake and all

Could i make the same hp with a larger engine, yes. So i understand you wanting to use the smaller engine

My main question is this,, Will you be building it your self or having it built ?

If your having it built its gonna cost you alot, if your building it you can go off peoples advice

As to the weight, light pistons then send them out and have them lightened more, rods buy light but strong, polish crank to a mirror finish, have good porter port your heads, solid roller cam, spring pressure, premium heavy wall pushrods, titanium retainers etc etc etc (those are the kinds of things you will need)

Maybe you should do some research on an NHRA 396 stocker,, they will push Nova's to 10.60's
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post #15 of 41 (permalink) Old Mar 26th, 09, 1:49 AM
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Re: 600 HP 396/402 How do we get there?

Dare to be different, go ahead and do it. I think it could be done without too much trickery. Just careful smart planning and several thousand rpm's.
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