Flat Tappet Cam Users,a New Oil With 1,800ppm Zddp - Page 2 - Chevelle Tech

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post #16 of 126 (permalink) Old Nov 17th, 08, 12:18 PM
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Ryan
 
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Re: Flat Tappet Cam Users,a New Oil With 1,800ppm Zddp

Good find Paul. I knew Lucas wouldn't let us down

Ryan Washington
www.RyansCustoms.com
'70 Monte 383, TH350
3,710 lbs Full tank of Gas, no driver, empty trunk
Scat Forged Crankshaft and H-Beam Rods
Four Bolt Splayed Mains
SRP Dished Forged Pistons
Comp Roller 276/282 Adv.-.536/.544 with 1.6 Harland Sharp Rockers
Stock 12 Bolt Open Rear - 2.73's
Best E.T. 13.83 @ 97 MPH with old cam
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post #17 of 126 (permalink) Old Nov 17th, 08, 7:24 PM Thread Starter
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Smile Re: Flat Tappet Cam Users,a New Oil With 1,800ppm Zddp

Dont be so quick to say the Lucas lube is ok for safe flat tappet cam protection,i am not convinced because WHERE THE HECK IS THE PHOS unless you forgot to tell us the Phos lvl the Lucas lube has in it?

BTW,the mult SM oils i had tested all had approx 800-850ppm zddp which jives with what the oil industry says the zddp lvl is on avg in todays SM oils ,it's not 600ppm zddp.

The zinc lvl is good on Lucas but there is no mention of Phosphorus (P) in ZDDP as a Zinc & P pkg that works together as an anti scuff sacrifical layer when things get ugly/marginal oiling for short periods of time in a flat vtappet cam'd motor.

If there is no P along with the Zinc i would not use it since there are mult other products out there today that have the FULL PROTECTIVE ZDDP / ZINC & PHOS pkg that used to be in the oils yrs ago.

The inexpensive zddp oil additives on the market today are ZDDPLUS/CAMSHIELD/MOTOR HEADS HI-Z ADDITIVE/GM'S EOS/CRANE'S SUPERLUBE ENGINE BREAKIN CONCENTRATE THAT ALL HAVE Z & P IN THEM AS A ZDDP PKG,NOT JUST ZINC LIKE THE LUCAS HAS FROM WHAT'S BEING REPORTED.

Why bother with the Lucas when thses oil additive products have the full ZDDP pkg?

BTW,i have been testing oils and also researching mult oil studies done by others ver the past few yrs and some of the the Lucas oils/additives haven't done so well at times. I am not all that impressed with them when there are other oil zddp additives out there that have all tested well for zddp(Z & P-not just Z Like Lucas)and have also been proven over many yrs of use like for example GM's EOS & Cranes superlube engine breakin concentrate.

If the Lucas lube turely doesnt have any P then it doesnt have the complete ZDDP pkg and i would not use it for flat tappet cam protection no matter what the Lucas tech/engineers say about it.

Ask Lucas if it in fact has P and if yes how much?

There are also affordable conventional oils with good zddp lvl's like MOTOR HEADS 15W-50/CALSSIC CAR OIL 15W-40/CHEVRONS DELO 15W-40-with 1300ppm Zinc/1200ppm P avail in many stores @ only $11.50-$12 per gal/SPECTRO'S 10W40 & 20W-50/PENNZOILS 25W-50 GT RACING OIL THAT ALL HAVE GOOD ZDDP LVLS FOR FLAT TAPPET CAM PROTECTION.

VALVOLINES NSL & V1 RACING OILS also have zddp but it been on avg 1150-1200ppm zddp when i had ity tested just making it in on the bottom of the 1200ppm-1400ppm rec zddp lvl for safe performance flat tappet cam protection but it still better then the 800-850ppm zddp todays most over the counter oils sold today have.

So there are plenty of ZDDP oil additives & oils with good / full zddp pkg's we can run for flat tappet cam protection so i see no need to use the what may be inferior Lucas lube for flat tappet cam proetction " if it in fact has no Phos in it " to work as a ZDDP pkg with only the Zinc Lucas stated their lube has in it.

Justr my 2 cents.

Scott

SCOTT
1969 CHEVELLE SS396,ORIGINAL #'S MATCH,GOT IN 1978,(In 2001 rblt/bored original 396 .030 to 402)/M20/12BOLT/3:31'S
2002 MAXIMA (DAILY DRIVER/1 owner,GOT 3/2013 w-44k miles)
2009 HD ELECTRAGLIDE CLASSIC ULTRA (GOT 11/14 W-9,700 miles)

Last edited by SWHEATON; Nov 17th, 08 at 7:51 PM.
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post #18 of 126 (permalink) Old Nov 17th, 08, 7:50 PM
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Ryan
 
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Unhappy Re: Flat Tappet Cam Users,a New Oil With 1,800ppm Zddp

Quote:
Originally Posted by SWHEATON View Post

So there are plenty of ZDDP oil additives & oils with good / full zddp pkg's we can run for flat tappet cam protection so i see no need to use the what may be inferior Lucas lube for flat tappet cam proetction if it in fact has no Phos in it to work as a ZDDP pkg with the Zinc Lucas stated it has in it.
Oh. My. Wow.

Well all I have to say is that I can't get my 20% discount on other additives since we don't sell them at Advance! {:-> lol Doesn't matter to me anyway since all my vehicles have gone roller. And I am in a Fuels and Lubes class this semester also, but our teacher makes us feel dumber every class! We've done nothing but distillations, API ratings, diesel cloudpoint, flashpoint, kinematic viscosity and some other viscosity test; Not this cool testing that I'm interested in...

Ryan Washington
www.RyansCustoms.com
'70 Monte 383, TH350
3,710 lbs Full tank of Gas, no driver, empty trunk
Scat Forged Crankshaft and H-Beam Rods
Four Bolt Splayed Mains
SRP Dished Forged Pistons
Comp Roller 276/282 Adv.-.536/.544 with 1.6 Harland Sharp Rockers
Stock 12 Bolt Open Rear - 2.73's
Best E.T. 13.83 @ 97 MPH with old cam
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post #19 of 126 (permalink) Old Nov 18th, 08, 10:31 AM
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Re: Flat Tappet Cam Users,a New Oil With 1,800ppm Zddp

I'll email the guy back to see if there is the P in there too....
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post #20 of 126 (permalink) Old Nov 18th, 08, 12:37 PM
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Ryan
 
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Re: Flat Tappet Cam Users,a New Oil With 1,800ppm Zddp

lol you Da Man

Ryan Washington
www.RyansCustoms.com
'70 Monte 383, TH350
3,710 lbs Full tank of Gas, no driver, empty trunk
Scat Forged Crankshaft and H-Beam Rods
Four Bolt Splayed Mains
SRP Dished Forged Pistons
Comp Roller 276/282 Adv.-.536/.544 with 1.6 Harland Sharp Rockers
Stock 12 Bolt Open Rear - 2.73's
Best E.T. 13.83 @ 97 MPH with old cam
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post #21 of 126 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 08, 1:13 PM
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Re: Flat Tappet Cam Users,a New Oil With 1,800ppm Zddp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_P View Post
I'll email the guy back to see if there is the P in there too....
I've been thinking about this and since the Zinc is probably put in the additive using Zinc dithiophosphates it probably has P in it. I will let you know though what the Lucas guy comes back with.
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post #22 of 126 (permalink) Old Nov 21st, 08, 12:40 PM
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Re: Flat Tappet Cam Users,a New Oil With 1,800ppm Zddp

This is what I got for a reply from Lucas.

Paul,

The additive package in this product is ZDDP and it makes up approximately 33% of the volume. The concentrations of the two components come in at about 50% and combined they come to 38,000 PPM.

So it is what it is a good ZDDP source.
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post #23 of 126 (permalink) Old Nov 21st, 08, 7:28 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Flat Tappet Cam Users,a New Oil With 1,800ppm Zddp

Paul,Thanks for following up with Lucas to verifiy there was in fact Phos with the Zinc,its appreciated.

The Lucas lube looks much better now that we know the Zinc is combined with Phos in a ZDDP pkg.

Now it looks like we have another source for an oil additive that has a good zddp lvl for flat tappet cam/lifter breakin to go along with the GM EOS & Cranes Superlube breakin concentrate.

Scott

SCOTT
1969 CHEVELLE SS396,ORIGINAL #'S MATCH,GOT IN 1978,(In 2001 rblt/bored original 396 .030 to 402)/M20/12BOLT/3:31'S
2002 MAXIMA (DAILY DRIVER/1 owner,GOT 3/2013 w-44k miles)
2009 HD ELECTRAGLIDE CLASSIC ULTRA (GOT 11/14 W-9,700 miles)
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post #24 of 126 (permalink) Old Nov 28th, 08, 11:56 AM
rkd
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Ron
 
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Re: Flat Tappet Cam Users,a New Oil With 1,800ppm Zddp

What exactly is the Lucas product you are talking about?

I cannot figure it out on their site?

Thanks.

66 Malibu Coupe, home rebuilt 350. Took me 39 years to get her!
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post #25 of 126 (permalink) Old Nov 29th, 08, 9:50 PM
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Re: Flat Tappet Cam Users,a New Oil With 1,800ppm Zddp

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChevroletR View Post
Let me know if that link doesn't work for you.

Ryan Washington
www.RyansCustoms.com
'70 Monte 383, TH350
3,710 lbs Full tank of Gas, no driver, empty trunk
Scat Forged Crankshaft and H-Beam Rods
Four Bolt Splayed Mains
SRP Dished Forged Pistons
Comp Roller 276/282 Adv.-.536/.544 with 1.6 Harland Sharp Rockers
Stock 12 Bolt Open Rear - 2.73's
Best E.T. 13.83 @ 97 MPH with old cam
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post #26 of 126 (permalink) Old Dec 2nd, 08, 4:18 PM Thread Starter
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Smile Re: Flat Tappet Cam Users,a New Oil With 1,800ppm Zddp

RON,HERE YA GO.

SCOTT

================================================== =============

LUCAS PT# 10063

IT'S CALLED: ENGINE BREAK-IN OIL ADDITIVE TB ZINC PLUS

ACCORDING TO LUCAS 16OZ BOTTLE IN 4.5QTS OIL = APPROX 5,000PPM ZINC

HERES THE LINK TO THE MFG SPECS FOR THRE NEW LUCAS OIL ADDITIVE:
http://static.summitracing.com/globa...tve_tbzinc.pdf

HERES THE SUMMIT PT# TO BUY THE LUCAS ADDITIVE : LUC-10063-1

SCOTT

SCOTT
1969 CHEVELLE SS396,ORIGINAL #'S MATCH,GOT IN 1978,(In 2001 rblt/bored original 396 .030 to 402)/M20/12BOLT/3:31'S
2002 MAXIMA (DAILY DRIVER/1 owner,GOT 3/2013 w-44k miles)
2009 HD ELECTRAGLIDE CLASSIC ULTRA (GOT 11/14 W-9,700 miles)
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post #27 of 126 (permalink) Old Dec 17th, 08, 1:36 AM
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Re: Flat Tappet Cam Users,a New Oil With 1,800ppm Zddp

What's A Flat Tappett Cam ?????. . . . ... .

Do they still use them in "lawn mowers"???? . . .. or something ????. . . ..<grin>
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post #28 of 126 (permalink) Old Dec 18th, 08, 7:03 PM
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Re: Flat Tappet Cam Users,a New Oil With 1,800ppm Zddp

I was curious about the levels of phosphorous and zinc in the Mobil Delvac 1300 super 15w-40 because I have an excess of it already. I have been buying the chevron delo oil for the chevelle but tried finding more info on the delvac to see if I could run it. It looks like the delvac has slightly higher levels than the chevron but this info was from some other website in december 2006 I found from google. Is this oil safe to run or don't risk it not knowing the exact levels?

Here's the website I found the info from:
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/anyt...otor-oils.html


Name.................P(ppm)..Zn(ppm) Viscosity

Delvac 1300 Super..1380...1702.......15w40
Chevron Delo 400....1191...1622 ......15w40
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post #29 of 126 (permalink) Old Dec 18th, 08, 9:36 PM Thread Starter
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Smile Re: Flat Tappet Cam Users,a New Oil With 1,800ppm Zddp

Corey,Dec 2006 info is NG,there were new Gov/EPA regs introduced on 1/2007 for even further reduced ZDDP lvl's on all oils including the modil delvac .

So what the zddp lvl was on the older gen CJ rated Delvac in 2006 could and likely is less then the newer CI rated delvac 15w-40.

But i tested the newer CJ rated delso and its aprox 1300-1350ppm,the older gen delvac was 1500ppm zddp.

I have had the delo tested mult times and was never as low as the 1199 you have listed,1250-1300ppm was the lowest i had ever seen the delo in all the oil testing had done & that's including the newer reduced zddp post 1/2007 CJ version ,again the Delo site claims at least 1300ppm ZDDP for the newer CJ version which isnt bad.

This may help


The current zddp oil additives on the market are as follows:

ZDDPLUS (TESTED/APPROX 2K Zn & 1,600 P W-6 QTS OIL)
CAMSHIELD (TESTED/APPROX 88KPPM Zn & 75KPPM P PRIOR TO MIX WITH OIL)
MOTORHEADS HI "Z" (BOOSTS ZDDP APPROX 50% OR BY 500-600PPM PER MFG)
LUCAS TB ZINC PLUS (5KPPM ZINC W-4.5 QTS OIL PER LUCAS/MFG)

=================================

GM EOS & CRANES SUPERLUBE ENGING BREAKIN CONCENTRATE ARE GREAT FOR FLAT TAPPET CAM/LIFTER BREAKIN & ALSO SHOWED GOOD/HIGH ZDDP LVLS. (BOTH SHOWED APPROX 5,500-6,000PPM ZDDP WHEN TESTED) I USE CHEVRON'S DELO 15W-40 WITH GM EOS FOR THE CRANE LUBE FOR ALL MY FLAT TAPPET CAM BREAKINS. WORKS GREAT AMD MUCH CHEAPER THEN JOE GIBS OR BRAD BENN BREAKIN OILS.
=====================================

HERE ARE OILS(SOME NEW ON MARKET) WITH GOOD ZDDP LVLS FOR FLAT TAPPET CAM PROTECTION.

1200-1400PPM ZDDP IS THE REC MINIMUM REQUIRED FOR PERFORMANCE FLAT TAPPET CAM PROTECTION AND CLOSER TO 1400PPM AND EVEN LITTLE MORE IS BEST FOR REAL HOT FLAT TAPPET CAMS RUNNING HI SPRING RATES:

CHEVRON'S DELO 15W-40 (NEW CJ VERSION1300PPM/OLD CI -1500PPM AS TESTED AND AS PER MFG TOO)
SHELLS' ROTELLA ST 30WT (APPROX 1250-1300PPM)
NOTE-SHELLS NEWER CJ 15W-40 OIL ONLY HAD APPROX 1050-1100PPM ZDDP WHEN TESTED SO ITS NG IMHP FOR PROTECTING A PERF FLAT TAPPET CAM)
MOTORHEAD'S 15W-40 (1400-1500PPM-PER MFG)
CLASSIC CAR OIL'S 15W-40(1400-1500PPM-PER MFG)
SPECTRO'S NEW 10W-40 & 20W-50(1800PPM- PER MFG)
PENZOILS 25W-50 GT RACING OIL(1400-1500PPM WHEN TESTED,MFG CLAIMS 1600PPM)
VALVOLINES NSL & VR1 RACING OILS(1200-1250PPM WHEN TESTED MFG CLAIMES 1300-1350 PPM)
ROYAL PURPLE ENGINE BREAK-IN OIL(STATES HAS HIGH ZDDP LVL FOR FLAT TAPPET CAM/LIFTER BREAKIN/ZDDP LVL ?)
============================================


Scott

SCOTT
1969 CHEVELLE SS396,ORIGINAL #'S MATCH,GOT IN 1978,(In 2001 rblt/bored original 396 .030 to 402)/M20/12BOLT/3:31'S
2002 MAXIMA (DAILY DRIVER/1 owner,GOT 3/2013 w-44k miles)
2009 HD ELECTRAGLIDE CLASSIC ULTRA (GOT 11/14 W-9,700 miles)

Last edited by SWHEATON; Dec 18th, 08 at 10:01 PM.
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post #30 of 126 (permalink) Old Dec 18th, 08, 11:04 PM
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Re: Flat Tappet Cam Users,a New Oil With 1,800ppm Zddp

Thanks for the info Scott. I'll keep running the Chevron then.
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