Cloyes timing cover. Royal Pain - Chevelle Tech
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 2nd, 07, 1:32 AM Thread Starter
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Cloyes timing cover. Royal Pain

Need some info here and I am sure all I will hear is how great this thing works for everyone. Cause that is just my luck with this stuff. I am trying to get this piece of sh!t on my car. 396 short water pump. Well first thing is No matter what, I can not get this thing to line up to get any on the other screws in. I wish the bottom holes just went all the way through the housing. I will probably drill and tap to the next size up on the bottom two holes. I run out of adjustment on the right side. It needs to be pulled down that direction to line the others up. I bottom out the threads before I can get it to line up. Second the need little adjustable thrust bearing hits the bolts mounting the cam on. I will just get smaller diameter bolts so it can clear no biggie there. Also I just bought a new 8" dampner and it warns of it possibly hitting the bolts holding the second cover on. I am sure I can figure that out if it does. Also looks like I will have to grind on either the water pump or the cover just a little to get it to clear. Great use of 140 bucks. On a much brighter note I got to meet Tom Mobley today. He cam over and helped me dial in my new camshaft. Very nice person and I appreciate the heck out of it. Even let me borrow some tools. Thanks again Tom.

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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 2nd, 07, 1:53 AM
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Re: Cloyes timing cover. Royal Pain

So why the fancy cover? Are you running a roller cam? Be careful with that thrust plate I have seen that little bearing go south and filling a engine up with filings from the cover. I hate fancy stuff it either leaks, corrodes, or explodes.

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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 2nd, 07, 2:13 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Cloyes timing cover. Royal Pain

Yes it is a Hyd. roller. I just hate it when something fits this horribly bad. Its like they didn't even try. Tomorrow should be interesting. I can just see it now I get it all on finally and then press the dampner on only to see that there is not way to make it work. Hurray!
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 2nd, 07, 3:18 AM
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Re: Cloyes timing cover. Royal Pain


can you lay the timing ccover gasket on the cover and see how the holes line up? Or match it up with the old cover?

Call me on my cell Sunday morning, I may have another option. If I'm running the video mixer at church I might not answer at first, but I'll call back to whatever number is on the phone.

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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 2nd, 07, 6:27 AM
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Re: Cloyes timing cover. Royal Pain

Is this the nice polished Cloyes cover that has the cam access circular plate held with four allen head screws?

I had one on an engine that broke a timing chain. Unfortunately it damaged the cover too. But it fit perfectly.

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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 2nd, 07, 7:37 AM
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Re: Cloyes timing cover. Royal Pain

i have used several with out a lot of trouble-first, i have had some interference with the waterpump on both sides, and had to grind
is the oil pan on the car? the front pan seal makes it hard to push down on the cover to line up with the locating pins (i have heard of people rem them, but i dont)
are you mtg. it w/o the center section first?
if you are using one of those locking plates on the cam gear, some times the hole in the center is not big enough for the thrust bearing to go thru-i believe they tell you to set it up then install the o-ring for the center cover, for ease of ck'ing
the biggest problen i had was reusing the cover, trying to get the locking screw out to re adjust
good luck

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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 2nd, 07, 8:02 AM
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Re: Cloyes timing cover. Royal Pain

Hate to hear this , this is my favorite cover on my sbc but I have the rigid aluminum. I have the Quick button cover.
I also use the hex-ajust timing set that has the encapusulated roller bearing. With the button bearing properly adjusted, this canned roller bearing will not come out as its recessed into the back of the gear and loaded with the button bearing. Cover button bearing has always fitted right into the timing gear hole but you have to use small shouldered bolts as the gear kit comes with 3 5/16 x 1" allen head bolts to retain cam to gear. If you use anything else, the bolt head or shoulders will interfear.
As for the cam to block thrust bearing, this is not the same as the older Torrington bearing but like it as its encased with too hi wear material sides. I have used these on two of my motors and after many miles cruising, no issues.
As for the cover not fitting, unless there is a mistake in drilling the cover, it always just popped on but if you are trying to do this without the front of the pan off or dropped, you will have problems, more so with the one piece pan gasket as the big lip needs to fit up into the cover grove.
I have never used one on a bbc with a short water pump, I know the back of the pump may interfere with the pump rear cover bolts.

These are good covers when running retro roller applications. Another option would be to install a late model type thrust bearing where the front cam plate retains the cam.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 2nd, 07, 9:14 AM
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Re: Cloyes timing cover. Royal Pain

I had to clearance it a bit around the water pump on mine too but once I did that it fit perfect!

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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 2nd, 07, 9:33 AM
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Re: Cloyes timing cover. Royal Pain

i have one on my BB that i have not fired yet, but i had to grind some of the cover edges by the water pump inlet outlet ports and i ground some material on the water pump so it would fit. Fit to the block was fine, here i thought it was just me,,,, sounds like they need to do some more R&D

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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 2nd, 07, 10:45 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Cloyes timing cover. Royal Pain

Well I can get bolts for the cam gear no problem. I have Toms grinder so operating will not be a problem. I will need to check the holes compared to the other one I took off. It gets to were it needs about a 1/16 of an inch to line the holes up, but I do have a one piece oil pan and need to be able to get a few more turns on it to pull it down on the right side. That is why I think I will just drill it out and all the way through so I can turn as much as I need to to line it up. Thanks, they need to fix this thing. It is way overkill, I am sure they can let some material go in a few spots. Thanks again. I will be calling ya later Tom.

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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 2nd, 07, 11:13 AM
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Re: Cloyes timing cover. Royal Pain

I agree with Tom if it does not align with the gasket send it back ...I have had 2 on bb's never a problem ,always used the Cloyes hex a just chain set so no bearing issues
...I have never used a stock water pump with one always Stewart water pumps so no clearance issues ........ and of course assume you installing with pan off ......

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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 2nd, 07, 12:52 PM
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Re: Cloyes timing cover. Royal Pain

I have used a lot of these covers over the years both big & small block & never had an issue with the way it fit the block??
As for the water pump, yes most short water pumps will hit but it has never been a big deal I am used to "bolt on" aftermarket parts so I just deal with them as the need arises.

On the cover to block, just use the gasket as a template
If the gasket lines up with the block & it lines up with the cover you are doing something wrong

You do still have the two alignment pins in the front of the block right?
And if your pan is in the way it is not the fault of the cover, you need to get the pan down first or it will be a complete bitch to install the cover

It has to be centered on the crank or the front seal will leak big time.

Now if you have the alignment dowels in the block & the bolt holes do not line up you may have a defective cover & you need to send it back as you have not way of knowing what is off
If you just make it fit you may well end up with a huge oil leak at the seal.

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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 4th, 07, 5:10 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Cloyes timing cover. Royal Pain

OK here is what went down. It was dark and I could not see that the power steering bracket was in the way so I had to grind on the cover in that area then it fit and lined up fine with all the holes. Then I Matched it to the original cover I took off and I ground the shoulders that stick out on the cover closest to the water pump so it matched the original cover and it fit fine.

Then problem two, the short water pump. The bolts on the back were hitting the cover and the bolts on the center piece of the cover were hitting the back of the water pump. Bought some short allen headed bolts for the back of the water pump and they were still a little bit long. After quit a bit of grinding on all these bolts it finally all fits. Setting the cam button is frigging easy as hell. Almost worth all the pain in the ass it took to use the cover. Now for any one who has this same set up and like me amd for some reason decides they need a 8" harmonic balancer, the only problem I ran into is it just about hits the bottom of my stewart stage 2 or 3 water pump. Which ever one is still the stock appearing unit. So I had to do some grinding on the water pump and have about 1/16" of clearance now. Hopefully it is enough. This is a 1968 396 with a short water pump. Also the Pioneer hi. Po. Balancer I used is not allowing my H2O pulley to line up quite right. I know because my power steering used to be way off and now it is allmost straight and now the H2O is off. Not to bad though. Yes the balancer is all the way on. I already broke Toms installer making sure of that. It was a well made and very strong tool too. Sorry again Tom.


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