Lowering the rear of your hood or front of trunk: alignment - Page 3 - Chevelle Tech
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post #31 of 54 (permalink) Old Jul 28th, 12, 4:06 PM
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Re: Lowering the rear of your hood or front of trunk: alignment

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Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
This thread popped into my head yesterday at dinner when I saw some dad tying his sons shoes. I don't know of a kid who didn't take at least a few days learning to tie his shoes, most take weeks. Just saying.....

Brian
I'll be more careful and use an appropriate analogy in my responses. Thanks for the clarification.
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post #32 of 54 (permalink) Old Jul 28th, 12, 4:52 PM
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Re: Lowering the rear of your hood or front of trunk: alignment

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I posted earlier that I make mistakes. So that means not everything comes easily. Maybe you glanced over it. And I sometimes make many errors when I'm teaching myself to do something. Everybody's abilities are different. I know guys who are lightening fast doing calculations in their head and on paper, I'm not. As long as you eventually comprehend something it does not matter how long it takes. Does that make it a little easier to interpret? Without instant responses like real life communication, or actually knowing someone more than what they divulge on public forum, this screen leaves things wide open for interpretations of various kinds.
Well like I said Scott, I might be wrong.
It's always so easy to take things the wrong with only text to go by.
It was the "should take less time to comprehend than one did when they learned to tie their shoes." that led me to think that you thought I should not have had to ask Brian what I did.

We are very lucky to have professional people with years of experience to help out all of us DIY folks at TC and this is just one example of many. Especially Brian and Eric who have always been great assets with their great "how to" articles.
(not that they are the only ones)

What is your background experience in the body & fender industry Scott?
I saw that you posted one time that you do not do body work (or something to that effect)
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post #33 of 54 (permalink) Old Jul 28th, 12, 6:40 PM
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Re: Lowering the rear of your hood or front of trunk: alignment

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What is your background experience in the body & fender industry Scott?
I saw that you posted one time that you do not do body work (or something to that effect)
I posted I am not in the collision business any longer and now do an occasional resto of my choice for customers. Just finished one. To be brief, as I don't want to go into a complete life history at this time: Out of collision completely 7 years ago. My primary focus now is art, airbrushing and custom paint. There's plenty of errors to be made there and one is easily humbled by those who have climbed high. I entered collision in '85 and since then I was in and out and pursued other fields that interested me as much, and often more than bodywork.
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post #34 of 54 (permalink) Old Jul 28th, 12, 6:44 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Lowering the rear of your hood or front of trunk: alignment

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I'll be more careful and use an appropriate analogy in my responses. Thanks for the clarification.
HUH? That wasn't a proper analogy?

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post #35 of 54 (permalink) Old Jul 28th, 12, 6:47 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Lowering the rear of your hood or front of trunk: alignment

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This applies to everything and is something that should be expected and accepted. There are people who do the various things I do and they are far more advanced than I. Perhaps some can move ahead further if they are nudged a little and realized their abilities are greater than they perceive.
Oh heck yes the proper "nudging" is the problem. Most employers don't know how to effectively do it, and I am certainly not saying I do. It is a magic touch that a boss has who can bring out the best in people. You are very right and the way I see it it's all about "Passion" and passion for something CAN be created, the right person can help a guy see that.

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post #36 of 54 (permalink) Old Jul 28th, 12, 6:51 PM
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Re: Lowering the rear of your hood or front of trunk: alignment

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HUH? That wasn't a proper analogy?

Brian
I thought you meant my analogy of hinge rotation comprehension and shoe tying was inappropriate. Depending on the circumstances it was.
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post #37 of 54 (permalink) Old Jul 28th, 12, 7:00 PM
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Re: Lowering the rear of your hood or front of trunk: alignment

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Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
Oh heck yes the proper "nudging" is the problem. Most employers don't know how to effectively do it, and I am certainly not saying I do. It is a magic touch that a boss has who can bring out the best in people. You are very right and the way I see it it's all about "Passion" and passion for something CAN be created, the right person can help a guy see that.

Brian
Screens are not always conducive for effective nudging because they lack the human element. They are often confined to bare instructional nudges. I have instructors whose effective teaching techniques could not be duplicted on a screen. It would lack the motivation and inspiration offered in real life. There's the interaction difference. I see employers who are good at workplace relations and those who are not. I've worked for, and with both kinds. I don't have to say which atmosphere was more productive.
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post #38 of 54 (permalink) Old Jul 28th, 12, 8:00 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Lowering the rear of your hood or front of trunk: alignment

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I thought you meant my analogy of hinge rotation comprehension and shoe tying was inappropriate. Depending on the circumstances it was.
I thought it was a chuckle because "Like tying shoes" is often used as an example of a no brainer when in actuality when we learned to tie our shoes it really wasn't that easy. It's like the "eats like a bird" HUH, I eat my weight every day? Because THAT is what a bird eats. How about "You can't judge a book by it's cover" referring to you don't "know" someone or something by their looks, just what in the heck do you judge it by? If I am going to pick out a book on baking bread I am not going to buy the book that has a biker on the cover and it's titled "Kill people for money".

I just thought it was cute, sorry, it just came to me like tying my shoes.

Brian

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post #39 of 54 (permalink) Old Jul 28th, 12, 8:58 PM
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Re: Lowering the rear of your hood or front of trunk: alignment

I hear ya. Although "book by the cover" can take a bad turn as it reminds me of: "She may be a beautiful woman, but some guy somewhere got tired of her sh--".
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post #40 of 54 (permalink) Old Jul 28th, 12, 9:07 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Lowering the rear of your hood or front of trunk: alignment



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post #41 of 54 (permalink) Old Jul 29th, 12, 3:16 PM
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Re: Lowering the rear of your hood or front of trunk: alignment

Brian, good information.
One thing that drives me nuts is seeing shims on a hood or deck lid, to me it says lazy.
Its of my opinion, its just a more professional job to bend or tweak the hinge rather then place a shim in the hinge. Of course you can't do this to all styles of hinges like those compound hinges found A-body hoods. But the simple arm hinges like on that Dodge Caravan and whats found on the deck lids of our Chevelles are extremely easy to bend.

All it takes a chuck of wood or even one of those 3x5 rubber sanding blocks, can't tell you how many of Caravan hood hinges I've repaired simply because they suck to replace and one can tweak them in seconds.

Maybe you can show how to block these styles of hinges? Am out of the business and all my tools and toys are 300 miles away otherwise I would snap some pictures.

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post #42 of 54 (permalink) Old Jul 29th, 12, 4:37 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Lowering the rear of your hood or front of trunk: alignment

I can do that Eric. I do have to say it's about the owners expectations. I too hate to see a shim but that picture of the hinge with the arrow pointing the shim is my Gran Sport. The only reason it's there is I did a no-no in that I painted the car knowing it had to come back apart to install the fender "gills" (mouldings) and liners so I aligned it with the ugly hinges all dungy and paint overspray on them. The front fit perfect. I then put it back together after having the hinges and springs powder coated and the darn back of the hood wouldn't go low enough anymore! Anyway, I wasn't about to bend the hood now with it painted and to remove the hinge and hog out holes or something ran against my grain for a number of reasons mostly not wanting to screw up the paint on the hood as it was safe where it was, so I added a shim to bring down the rear.

It is kinda funny how there are piles of shims all over the car yet we don't want to see these. It's like the old butt weld vs lap weld when someone will say it rusts easy, when every single weld on the entire car is a lap or pinch weld! I mean, really, how is this one any different? But yes, when they didn't have them there to begin with they are all of a sudden "unsightly".

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post #43 of 54 (permalink) Old Jul 30th, 12, 12:25 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Lowering the rear of your hood or front of trunk: alignment

Ok here are a few photos of how you would tweak the hinges. (that sounds so much better than "bend". ) I can't stress enough I just walked out to my car and grabbed a couple of pieces of wood I use around the garage and held them for photos. They are not the perfect length and are leaning a bit. But still would probably do the job. The piece across the trunk floor would be needed though as you need to spread out the pressure. Just the 2x4 going into the floor would likely damage the floor as you are providing quite a bit of leverage with this. With that wood where it's at you have about a 10-1 ratio there, YES you can bend that hinge in half doing this. Which is why it works so great, the more leverage you have the less you have to pull to tweak the hinge.

I will be referring to the "front" of the trunk lid as the point nearest the front of the car at the hinges. The "rear" of the lid is at the rear of the car over the rear bumper. Things can get a little weird in my head when I talk about the trunk so I just wanted to make this clear.

Lowering the front of the lid at the hinge:

To lower the front of trunk lid you need to do just as rotating the hinge of the hood back did (bringing the pivot point down). In this case of course we are going to "rotate" that pivot point down the same way by changing the shape of the hinge. You can do the exact same thing on the hood of my wifes family truckster.

I took a small block of wood and put it above the hinge.




By putting this block there and then pushing the rear of the lid open "too far" just as we did with the hood rotating the hinge back, in this case the block is stopping the hinge from moving so something, be it the hinge or the structure of the hinge or lid "gives" a little or "tweaks" (that sounds so much better than "bends" don't it? ) Lowering the front edge of the lids pivot point thus lowering the front of the lid. You need to be careful because you do have a LOT of leverage and you can bend things you don't want to. Be sure that the wood is stopping the hinge from moving and is on something that is strong enough that it won't collapse.


Raising the front of the trunk lid at the hinges:

In this case pulling down on the rear of the trunk lid as if to shut it will raise the front of the lid. So when you removed the wood and shut the lid the front would be higher in relation to the body than before (near the rear window). You are simply stopping the hinge from moving to close the lid, with a little force it moves things to let the lid "close" a little, tweaking the hinge and structure.

It's like trying to move anything, when you have a lot of power you are much less likely to damage something. When ever you do something like this you are putting ALL the forces on that spot the wood is on the hinge.(realistically, if you are an engineer you see things different, but that is a whole different story) So with the wood where it is placed in this photo the force will be right there at the bottom of the hinge. It would likely bend right at that spot. However, the hinge is very strong there so the weakest point will still be the place where it bends, which is likely in the structure of the trunk right where it mounts to the hinge. How much do you go? Well, that is something you need to simply do to find out. Let me tell you this though, you do NOT need to bend a bunch to get big results. This is the beauty of having a lot of power. Just a tad, pull down just a tad and check it. You have a LOT of power and over the hinge and structure of the gate and hinge mount only has to move a hair to raise that back up a bit. So you have all the power in the world to make it move.



This method would localize the force right on the hinge where it mounts to the lid, this would more than likely tweak the lid's inner structure more than anything. But again, it only takes a tiny bit! You won't be buckling the structure and ruining it, we are talking a TINY amount here.



Not only is this done every day in bodyshops around the world it was done at the factory!

By they way, on this 65 Buick that I am working on, there was a dent in the center of the trunk lid inner structure. I have owned a number of these cars and they ALL had this dent in the middle of the inner structure. One day it hit me, these trunks were hit with a large hammer or bend up using something like this wood method to raise the center of the lid to fit the body! Yep, if it was good enough for the GM factory I guess it's good enough for us!

Brian

ps I have re-read this a number of times but I am sure I still missed where I mixed up the front and the back of the lid, if I did I'm sorry.

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post #44 of 54 (permalink) Old Dec 28th, 14, 12:44 PM
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Re: Lowering the rear of your hood or front of trunk: alignment

How do you lower the rear of the trunk?

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post #45 of 54 (permalink) Old Dec 28th, 14, 1:38 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Lowering the rear of your hood or front of trunk: alignment

You could bend the hinge (and/or the mounting on the trunk lid) the other way by blocking the hinge from allowing the lid to open, then pushing up on the lid would bend the hinge and or the mounting to lower the back of the lid at the hinges.

Here is a way you can shim it down too. http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/hood...oo-212388.html

Brian

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