How primer affects paint color - Chevelle Tech
Body Shop Paint & Body Forum

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old Mar 7th, 08, 9:14 AM Thread Starter
Tech Team
James
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: South Texas
Posts: 104
How primer affects paint color

I have a question about primer. My 69 Firebird 400 is in the paint shop right now. Its being repainted yellow. Probably the same Vivid Canary yellow that was on it. Last time the body shop took a white primer and added yellow tint to it. I've heard that some people will use a straight white primer on painting red or yellow and the white makes the paint really bright "pop". My body man said that they add the yellow tint to the white to make the yellow cover better.

Does primer really affect the paint color that much? And if I go with a white primer/sealer will there be a significant amout of extra paint that I will need. by the way, I'm using Dupont Chromabase.
James408 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old Mar 7th, 08, 10:50 AM
Tech Team
Sean
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 32
Re: How primer affects paint color

primer has no effect on paint color at all as long as you get proper coverage. all it may effect is the amount of coats it takes to achieve proper coverage. In my experience yellow takes a little more to get full coverage than say, a red, so if your painter wants to use yellow sealer, great. if he wants to use straight white sealer, great. if he wants to use purple sealer, great (just know that it will take more coats to get proper coverage over that purple). as for how much extra paint will be needed on white sealer vs. yellow sealer?? maybe enough for an additional coat? hard to say but if you're ordering a little more paint than you need anyway (which you should be) it won't make a difference. sorry if this was long-winded. hope it helped!!
semeehan17 is offline  
post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old Mar 7th, 08, 11:02 AM
Team Member
Hey!
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: Lake Granbury Texas
Posts: 3,797
Re: How primer affects paint color

Good info above.
The yellow tint to the primer is good for chips or scratches down the road. They won't show up as much. Paint shops might do it also for minor incidents when going through the top coat when buffing the paint out. A minor insurance policy.

1969 Chevelle SS 396

A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.
..........Thomas Jefferson
Jimmy P is offline  
post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old Mar 7th, 08, 2:24 PM
Lifetime Premium Member
Jerry
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 3,362
Re: How primer affects paint color

Quote:
Originally Posted by semeehan17 View Post
primer has no effect on paint color at all as long as you get proper coverage. all it may effect is the amount of coats it takes to achieve proper coverage. In my experience yellow takes a little more to get full coverage than say, a red, so if your painter wants to use yellow sealer, great. if he wants to use straight white sealer, great. if he wants to use purple sealer, great (just know that it will take more coats to get proper coverage over that purple). as for how much extra paint will be needed on white sealer vs. yellow sealer?? maybe enough for an additional coat? hard to say but if you're ordering a little more paint than you need anyway (which you should be) it won't make a difference. sorry if this was long-winded. hope it helped!!
You would be better off using a tinted primer. But as for using any color, would take quite a few coats of paint to offset the primer. For instance Interstate Batteries Green like on Joe Gibbs #18 race car is created by using a black primer as a base and spraying the green over. makes a much bolder color. You do have to be careful what color primer you use. Jb
Jerry Briggs is offline  
post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old Mar 7th, 08, 4:00 PM Thread Starter
Tech Team
James
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: South Texas
Posts: 104
Re: How primer affects paint color

Thanks guys for your responses. I emailed Dupont and they said to use value shade 1 primer which is a white primer. They do not recommend tinting it.
James408 is offline  
post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old Mar 7th, 08, 7:10 PM
Senior Tech Team
Eric
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Overland Park KS, burb of KC
Posts: 4,429
Re: How primer affects paint color

Primer does NOT affect the color of the basecoat if you have enough paint applied. Without enough paint then YES primer color can have affect but once you achieve color hiding it does NOT matter if your primer was black, white or pink...Eric

The reason for Dupont's value shade system is to achieve color hiding in the fewest amount of coats. Their is system is based off one aspect of color, each color has a black/white equal, if you match that color's black/white equal you get faster color hiding. Dupont's system goes from white to black, no blues, greens whatever its all black and white and shades of grey.

Currently working on How to videos and replacement sheetmetal panels

1970 chevelle getting Sliced and Diced Anything But STOCK
1970 chevelle SS455 not a typo its a BUICK BABY
1949 and 1972 chevy trucks
Pictures of my work
http://s969.photobucket.com/user/sev...?sort=6&page=1
sevt_chevelle is offline  
post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old Mar 7th, 08, 11:42 PM
Tech Team
Bruce
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bridgeport MI
Posts: 493
Re: How primer affects paint color

Dupont's value shade sealer system also helps with color match. you would be amazed at the different shades you get by just shooting the same color over the different shades of sealer.
Brucebodyman is offline  
post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old Mar 8th, 08, 3:19 AM
Lifetime Premium Member
Jeff
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: PuebloWest, CO.
Posts: 4,548
Re: How primer affects paint color

Ok Iam gonna chim in here. I know a couple of painters that have been painting since before I was born let alone potty trained lol. So here is what I was told by them about this when I asked. they said primer does affect the hue or shade of the color IE if you spray gray primer and a green top coat on one fender then spray redoxide primer on another and put the same green on it it sill be a different shade and if you use a black primer still another shade. they have been doing this along time since acrilic laquer was popular. So take it for what it is.

78 Malibu 402, 4L60E, 3:70 9"
74 vega wagon, 4.3L th350, 4k stall, ladder bar, mini tub, 12bolt 4.56 spool.
68 VW baja 1600cc.
2016 honda civic coup 2.0L 6 speed. 17's kocking on 16.99 lol
Jebchevelle is offline  
post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old Mar 8th, 08, 11:54 AM
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: SLC, UT USA
Posts: 585
Re: How primer affects paint color

I paint mostly HOK and Spies Hecker and the color of primer DOES effect the outcome period, especially with HOK pearl base coats. I've seen it time and again so maybe it really comes down to if the base is a solid or pearl and since I dont shoot solid colors I dont know.

Lee

230" Dragster - 2000 LS1, 02020003 Speed Density, PRC 2.5 Heads,
MS3 Cam 237/242 .603/.609, Vic Jr. intake, Holley 1000CFM TB,
PowerGlide, 5000 stall converter. 8.70@154 MPH

My Projects Homepage: http://www.horsepowerracing.com
70_chevelle is offline  
post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old Mar 8th, 08, 1:16 PM
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Upstate, Ny
Posts: 142
Re: How primer affects paint color

Lee, HOK is a totally different spectrum when compared to Dupont or any other companies OEM finishes. You are correct though.

I've been painting for over 25+ years, and once hiding is achieved on a solid color finish, be it 3 coats or 10 coats, the the top coat will look the same no matter what color the primer is.

Many painters that say the base primer does affect color, simply aren't putting enough paint to cover primer. It's like teaching an old dog new tricks, it's hard.

DuPonts valueshade system is designed to achieve hiding the quickest and save you time and money.

Lets go back to the Yellow you speak of:

I personally would use a white primer to achieve hiding quickly, but my buddy down the road would use grey. He would probably coat that vehicle 4 or more times than I would, to get to the same point I did with a white primer. So it cost him more money and time to do it.

Also a lot depends on shop conditions and technique. That's my 25+ year take on it in a nut shell.

Jarrod
--------------------------------------------------
Autobody Painter 26 years.
quitedude is offline  
post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old Mar 8th, 08, 4:29 PM
Tech Team
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Cincinnati, Oh
Posts: 368
Re: How primer affects paint color

If you want to know if the color will be affected by the primer use a black/white checkerboard paint card. Most paint stores have these cards available if you ask. Here's an explaination of how to use them.

"This problem has been addressed in the past by the use of paint coverage cards which include a black and white pattern, such as a checkerboard pattern or half black and half white pattern. The paint coverage cards may also include a hole for color checking with a portion of an automobile which is being painted. In use, the painter coats a card to determine how many coats of paint are necessary to completely cover the black and white pattern so that the pattern can not be seen at all. If the card includes a hole, the color then can be checked by holding the painted card up to an existing portion of the automobile and viewing it through the hole."

'66 Chevelle SS396/L78
'71 Karmann Ghia Convt.
'55 Chevy Convt.
'53 Chevy COE
ED1966SS is offline  
post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old Mar 8th, 08, 8:13 PM
Lifetime Premium Member
Scott
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Binghamton,New York
Posts: 810
Garage
Re: How primer affects paint color

When I recently attended a 2 day PPG seminar (got to play with all their new stuff). They went into great detail about using the correct shade under the base. We were able to acheive correct color in 2 coats of base with this system. If you use the wrong shade under the base it would require more coats to acheive your desired color. Why would anybody want to make a number of unneeded trips around the car, and increase their chances of screwing up their paint job. Not to mention the added cost of more paint. Yellow was one of the examples we covered. You could clearly see a major color difference with the various shades under the yellow base. I would use the shade that the manufacturer reccommends to acheive the color you have bought. Most people put a lot of thought in the color they choose. Unless you want to alter the color you have selected, I would use the correct shade under that base.

Scott
65 Malibu SS Red On Red 4 Speed
Sold It

Showroom http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/sh...0/ppuser/28378

Current Evening Orchid Project Finally Done
http://s728.photobucket.com/albums/ww285/seseyeguy/
eyewanta65 is offline  
post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old Mar 14th, 08, 10:41 PM Thread Starter
Tech Team
James
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: South Texas
Posts: 104
Re: How primer affects paint color

Thanks guys, I appreciate it. I just bought a half pint of Dupont chromabase zinc yellow and vivid canary yellow. My painter is going to shoot a couple of test strips for me to compare the two. I advised him to use the recommended value shade 1 and to not add any tint to the paint. I talked to a PPG dealer because I was looking at Lemon Ice and she said to be sure to use a white sealer with that paint. she said that if you use anything else with that color the yellow will have a dirty look to it.
James408 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Chevelle Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address. Note, you will be sent a confirmation request to this address.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome